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Recommend me a really really high powered torch.

I was in a hole last night and it was massive and dark. Our combined 3250 of proper lumens was swallowed by the place. It is time to get something I can pull out of my kit bag and REALLY light anything up.

Ebay is an utter minefield. I don't know what is what. There are lots of chinese LED torches and they look a bit "20000lm out of 6 little cells?"

I'm looking for something completely over the top. A good 10k-20k lumens preferably. Something which is like a set of rally headlight bulbs.

I'm sure there is a Woy Ferrows in China who makes something one of you can recommend.
 

Madness

New member
Big open spaces swallow light. Even a powerful lamps might not necessarily do what you want. I would have thought that the beam would have to be relatively focused.

Why not buy one of Roy Fellows bat cookers?

Undoubtedly Roy will be along shortly with some good advice.
 

alanw

Well-known member
I've got one of the "Skyray 9500" torches from eBay. Not sure I'd go for a deal including 4x18650 cells: I'd probably buy some Panasonics separately. The cells came to more than the torch. It IS very bright. Dont get mud in the switch assembly though. A Lock&Lock  HPL 931L is just the right size to hold the torch.

http://locknlock.in/product_details.aspx?id=87
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Hi Stu

I say a lot about these on this thread

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19442.0

They always 'look' very bright until you compare with the real McCoy

I was toying with an X8000 in the back of my mind. Running off 4S cell pack about 16.8 V off the charger, 2 X 4S arrays of XML U BINS, recharging off a laptop charger with control electronics built into the battery pack. Probably push nearer 9K until it got hot.

I would take all the driver electronics out of the lamp into a side switch box to enable LEDs to mount straight onto the copper backplate which would extend sideways and mount extra heatsinks.

Alternatively, I could take a Chinese multi LED torch and mod it to deliver the full wack. Its the heat that would be the problem there.

I think in the end I would go for hand lamp with forced air flow. Something for me to think about.

Where the hell were you in a place that big!

Send me an email, you know where I am.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Hey, if you buy a 10,000 lumen torch of eBay and expect anything like 10,000 lumens, or even half that, you really will be "Disgusted from Cornwall"
:LOL:
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
Your best bet is to buy something from Roy. As far as I am aware, he is the brightest as far as caving lamps go (that you can buy anyway).

Chris.
 

Roger W

Well-known member
royfellows said:
I was toying with an X8000 in the back of my mind. Running off 4S cell pack about 16.8 V off the charger, 2 X 4S arrays of XML U BINS, recharging off a laptop charger with control electronics built into the battery pack. Probably push nearer 9K until it got hot.

I would take all the driver electronics out of the lamp into a side switch box to enable LEDs to mount straight onto the copper backplate which would extend sideways and mount extra heatsinks.

Alternatively, I could take a Chinese multi LED torch and mod it to deliver the full wack. Its the heat that would be the problem there.

Had you thought of building a metal helmet shell and using that as a heat sink?

I know there could be a bit of a weight penalty, but you could probably generate some really serious light...?
 

NewStuff

New member
alanw said:
I've got one of the "Skyray 9500" torches from eBay. Not sure I'd go for a deal including 4x18650 cells: I'd probably buy some Panasonics separately. The cells came to more than the torch. It IS very bright. Dont get mud in the switch assembly though. A Lock&Lock  HPL 931L is just the right size to hold the torch.

http://locknlock.in/product_details.aspx?id=87

My Fenix TK35 kicks that into touch, despite the seeming disparity in specs. Compared back to back in Cwmorthin, the disparity in the TK25's favour was silly.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
NewStuff said:
alanw said:
I've got one of the "Skyray 9500" torches from eBay. Not sure I'd go for a deal including 4x18650 cells: I'd probably buy some Panasonics separately. The cells came to more than the torch. It IS very bright. Dont get mud in the switch assembly though. A Lock&Lock  HPL 931L is just the right size to hold the torch.

http://locknlock.in/product_details.aspx?id=87

My Fenix TK35 kicks that into touch, despite the seeming disparity in specs. Compared back to back in Cwmorthin, the disparity in the TK25's favour was silly.

I well believe it
I have a few Chinese offerings lying about and when I get time will test on a meter and disassemble etc, hopefully be able to paint a fairly accurate picture.
The lesson that will probably emerge is that they are very good value for money, but.....?
and if you want something good you will have to be prepared to pay a lot more
 

royfellows

Well-known member
To answer Stu's question, if you don't mind paying the price, this is the most powerful torch I can find from honest people.

http://lupinelights.co.uk/2016-lupine-betty-tl2-s-5000-lumen-torch-20642-p.asp?gclid=CMvDl_6TxckCFcF02wodg9kNxw

5000 lumens, ?559.99

Thing to remember though as I have said elsewhere, "You cant change the laws of physics Captain" as McCoy said the captain Kirk
There is a limit as to how many good reflectors you can cram into a reasonable space, and the smaller you go the more light gets dispersed, whoever makes them.
 

NewStuff

New member
The Lupine Betty's are utterly fantastic, with regards to build quality.. I'm repairing one for a friend (his hamfistedness, not Lupine's quality). Eye watering prices though.
 
ChrisJC said:
Your best bet is to buy something from Roy. As far as I am aware, he is the brightest as far as caving lamps go (that you can buy anyway).

Chris.

I have a couple of RF Weapons. I merely wanted something "fking ridiculous". I might have to lash something up myself.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
If you just want a super light, and I was thinking of posting this anonymously as I didn't want the idea attributable to me, you could parallel a load of XMLs together and direct drive them off LiIon cells at about 1 emitters per cell. Do a dry run through a meter and check any overdrive off fresh charged cells, then use Ohms law to figure a resistor value to get it down to 3 amps an LED. So 10 LEDs should pull 30 amps off fresh cells. Juggle number of LEDs relative to number of cells, if you use a resistor work out the wattage and go for ceramic. Also, hint, the number of equal circles that will fill a circle is 7, so number over goes asymmetric.

It would make a workable mod to a cheap Chinese torch, check out no of emitters and number of cells and do the math. As daft as it sounds it would be reliable but output would fall with battery voltage obviously.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Just tried an LED of a fresh charged cell and it went to over 4 amps!
So would need some careful planning.

Anyway, this should be of more interest.
I have finally got round to dismantling the ?20 "10,000" lumens torch off eBay, and also some testing.
To be honest, its junk!

The emitters look like XMLs, but the old original which are ten a penny now. The switch is the common low load micro switch which switches the electronics on a soft control through a chip with no serial number so cant identify it. There are two IC chips, what looks like a MOSFET and a scattering of resistors, on full power its virtually direct drive, 4 parallel cells to 6 parallel emitters. I got 7.35 amps of fresh charge, down to 5 amps at 50% discharged state.

The switch also has no kind of seal at all, neither does the tail cap. A rubber seal inside the tail cap would fix that, and the switch could be uprated to a more robust waterproof one, these are available for a few quid.

So, now to the Cree data sheet

Fresh cells: 7.35/6 = 1.22 amps per LED, Cree data sheet tells us 462 lumens, multiply by 6 = 2688 lumens
Half discharged cells: = 0.83 amps per cell, Cree data sheet gives us 308 lumens, multipy by 6 = 1848 lumens

Of course, this leaves the question hanging in the of why my X3000 with 2 X XM-Ls U2s beats it. Possibly the emitters in the torch aren't even T6s, or arn't even XMLs, my lamp has bigger reflectors, what ever. Thinking about it, I probably understate my output.

Now what I have to say is that the Chinese torch is very highly moddable, loads of room for electronics and it would be easy fit a better switch and series the battery cells to 16V. The issue is numbers, number of cells to emitters, which is probably why the Chinese parallel them. Best design would be a boost driver that boosts the voltage to match the number of LEDs in series.
I will have a play over Christmas. Might come up with something for Stu

All of this Chinese stuff is aluminium die-cast. Tooling is expensive but churning the stuff out by the thousand and flooding the world market means that eventually it costs next to nothing to produce.

By way, the testing was on Sanyo cells, I shudder to think of the results with 'Junkfire' brands.
 

Wayland Smith

Active member
I think that sums it up well Roy.
The aluminum cases alone would cost a fortune to get made "in the West"
Having done the hard part, they then fail on the easy & low cost bit!
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Stu, if you are still about. I am rebuilding the eBay junk torch by serial the cells and emitters, mounting everything on copper, and using a boost drive switching off a MOSFET, should push about 6750 lumens from cold. If it works out I will build you one at the right price.

 
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