Well then oh great one, enlighten us mere mortal's, for we know not what we speak of...
This is beginning to sound like one of these 'I understand something you plebs don't' conspiracy theory jobs.
I'm sorry to have written with what I guess is unbecoming conviction. Would it be wrong for me to understand something you didn't? What good are we, though, if we can't learn from one another. To be clear, I'm not just making this stuff up. I've grown into my views over a period of decades, helped immensely by reading and talking to others much brighter and saner than myself, and by a degree of separation from the mainstream. Yes, I've made applications to caving, among other things, on my own. But I would never annoy everyone so persistently if I didn't believe that there are important conclusions that most people have not yet reached and that it would benefit them to reach.
droid said:
Madness said:
If Kenilworth wants to sit at home to protect the cave environment, that's his perogative.
I think Kenilworth wants other cavers to do that, not himself....
I wish that anyone who does cave would come to a real understanding of their fragility, and act accordingly. This is not currently the case. Too much damage is taken as unavoidable, and thus no effort is made to avoid it. There is too much haste. There is too little understanding
of what is left of a cave that can be saved. So we ruin in one cave while we follow The Rules to protect what is already ruined in another.
I want there to be fewer cavers. I see nothing positive about organizational facilitation of caving. There is at present a major and undeniable cave over-visitation problem.
One way that I personally try to care for caves is to avoid overuse. But I certainly don't sit at home... I love caving. 90% of my caving is in previously undocumented caves or passages. I walk remote or overlooked karst areas, locating, digging, surveying, photographing and writing about new caves. If these are fragile, I explore and document them with great care, as thoroughly as I possibly can,
and never return. This is a sacrifice that I feel it is important to make, and knowing that I will make it adds gravity and reverence to both the original exploration and my memories of it.
I certainly don't expect the same thing from everyone, but I would like cavers, understanding that overuse is a real problem, to involve themselves in some form of restraint.
It isn't rocket science. Respect for the cave and it's environment involves care and consideration. nothing more.
Neither is it as simple as you appear to believe. To oversimplify is convenient, which is why most cavers are content to share your viewpoint. However, respect for any natural place involves respect and care for your fellow man and for yourself. These are all the same issue, and "the environment" is a red herring that allows us to pretend that we are separate from the world (see Madness' post above). This is why I earlier tried to ask about conservation priorities. When asked what they are supposed to be conserving, cavers' answers usually boil down to "the environment". I would ask cavers to try and figure out just what "the environment"
is and why they are supposed to be respecting it. If they can work through that problem and come out the other side with the real answers, then we will have reached a starting place.
