some of box freestone being closed off?

[ditzy 24//7]

seen on another forum that box is being surveyed from the u/g doorways to the militery bit into the areas we go in
they are spraying marks that could be places for new walls to be built
sounds like going to build walls to block off the mod bits that are open access at the minute
anyone know what is really happening?
will the spray paint hurt the bats and will gaps be left for them?
the delta rectangle shafts will be inside the new wall as will a lot of other stuff on that side of the quarry, will the robots be lost?
:doubt:

 

[ditzy 24//7]

user morlock replied with this on AN:

1) I suspect the bats are very low down on the list of priorities!

2) I also suspect the robots will become handy shuttering accessories.

Edit: I further suspect that those "in the know" will not tell us.

This is from boxminer who has seen the markers - looks like a lot of box will be lost - all the area to the east will be gone

 

[graham]

isn't it open access land?  :doubt:

 

[ditzy 24//7]

helpful 
very helpful

 

[andymorgan]

Interesting, thanks for the post ditzy. I wonder what they are up to there? Is the blocking of Ridge is linked?

 

[Brains]

From what I have seen / heard of Ridge the closure is quite a rudimentary feature of old railings and large boulders. I believe this may have been done by the active quarry owners at Monks Park (Hanson?) as a result of requests from the owners of the sold off u/g former military site in Monks Park, where the fire was (Leafield Engineering). I believe this to be because pikies were going into MPQ to rob cables etc for scrap. The MPQ incline could be opened from the inside, accessed from Ridge. However, some pikies/nmbte were then trying to break into Leafield via the emergency egress doors / joining walls, causing grief all round...
AFAIK the MoD no longer have an interest in the facility at this location.

On Boxminers image that Ditzy has posted, the current "limit" of MoD fencing is marked as "Grill" just below the surface reservoir and at the end of Wind Tunnel (WT). At the grill, a barbed wire mesh and steel railing fence/grill leads to a large passage to a steel door into the active military zone. At the end of WT there is an XPM fence that leads to another passage and door(the "submarine door"). There are unsurveyed passages linking the grill area to the end of WT.

Since the end of the cold war, access has been tolerated to the unsurveyed open passages, and unofficial access has been had to the rest for decades

Is the marked area to be blocked off?
Will bats be effected, and if so how to they square that with the law?
As effectively unrestricted access has been allowed for 20+ years, have the mines become rights of way?

 

[Maggot]

Is the marked area to be blocked off?
Will bats be effected, and if so how to they square that with the law?

The bats wouldn't affect anything, if the conjectured walls are built they can fly in and out via the Delta Rectangle shafts.

As effectively unrestricted access has been allowed for 20+ years, have the mines become rights of way?

Official access to Box has never been granted, technically it's civil trespass to enter the mines.

Saying that, it would be a pretty big and interesting part lost if they build walls.
They may be surveying as a requirement for building something on the surface.

 

[caving_fox]

Official access to Box has never been granted, technically it's civil trespass to enter the mines.

However on the surface if you can prove continual frequent access over a greater than 13yr period (I think it's 13), even if it's tresspass, then a RoW can be deemed to have been created. You need to go to court to get it established, and I'm not sure if the provisions have changed following CROW.

I very much doubt this applies to underground sites though. However the local ramblers association would be the best people to contact, because they do know all about access laws.



Would be a shame to lose that much of Box. I've only been in once, but it's on my list of thigns to see more of.

 

[Brains]

Had a quick trip yesterday and cam confirm the accuracy of Boxminers image. There are wires / cables leading out from the Brewers Drift door, presumably to act as leaky feeder aerials for coms.
Also noted several areas on the route to Cathedral from BD where there appeared to be new / recent roof falls.
It would seem that one way or another parts of Box are going to become unavailable to visitors...
Oh, and we saw plenty of bats flying around in Cathedral and roosting in other parts so they dont seem too unhappy as yet

Also checked Ridge and MPQ u/g access, and these appear to still be secure at present.

 

[Les W]

Official access to Box has never been granted, technically it's civil trespass to enter the mines.

However on the surface if you can prove continual frequent access over a greater than 13yr period (I think it's 13), even if it's tresspass, then a RoW can be deemed to have been created. You need to go to court to get it established, and I'm not sure if the provisions have changed following CROW.

The establishment of a right of way includes proving regular unopposed access for 20 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_way_in_England_and_Wales).

However, it is not possible to establish a right of way over crown lands.

 

[graham]

Ppart at least was Crown Land even if it ain't now and access was certainly not unopposed, parties have been ordered out and at one time it was necessary to call them in advance.