SRT: How fast....
- Thread starter GT
- Start date
Titan is about 450 ft right? 20 minutes isn't unreasonable on a rope walker at least 
. Uh, American style ropewalker.
I think it depends on the level of experience of your group....the very first time I was on a practice bluff (about 50ft which would be approx 15meters) it took me [i am on a frog system] about 15 minutes to climb it and negotiate the lip (which was 100% undercut, fun first time on rope not on a practice scaffold thing haha). Now though I do more like 100 ft (30m) in 10-15 minutes which would put your 15 m pitch in the 5-7 min range as suggested by someone else (and I am still on the slow side - then again I only get to be on rope and practice about once every 4 months at the moment so I dont have the stamina built up for frogging. Okay that and I have the WORST body build for frogging I get about 6-7 inches every cycle, which *is* a tuned system).
. Uh, American style ropewalker. I think it depends on the level of experience of your group....the very first time I was on a practice bluff (about 50ft which would be approx 15meters) it took me [i am on a frog system] about 15 minutes to climb it and negotiate the lip (which was 100% undercut, fun first time on rope not on a practice scaffold thing haha). Now though I do more like 100 ft (30m) in 10-15 minutes which would put your 15 m pitch in the 5-7 min range as suggested by someone else (and I am still on the slow side - then again I only get to be on rope and practice about once every 4 months at the moment so I dont have the stamina built up for frogging. Okay that and I have the WORST body build for frogging I get about 6-7 inches every cycle, which *is* a tuned system).
I have a short torso and HUGE boobs to get in the way. With perfect technique I can maybe do 8-9. But that doesnt last longer than about 5 meters because the mechanics of a frog throws my whole body off-center and it just takes wayyyyy too much energy to stay in alignment and it REALLY hurts my lower back (my lower back has extra curvature to make up for my large chest, as a result my center of gravity is basically behind my body and there is a lot of constant strain on my back which is exasperated by frogging very quickly). Ive had about 3 different veryyyyy experienced vertical people look at it. All say "wtf get a ropewalker you are screwed on a frog" basically lol. I added a pantin and that helps a little bit gonna try adding a double chest roller and have basically a frog-to-mitchell type system. Bonus is the chestplate for the roller will help squish mah boobs and bring me closer to the rope. As it is ropeburn between the girlies is a serious concern and another painful thing about staying in proper alignment LOL. I will say the experts are right...I got on a ropewalker once and FLEW up the rope, first time ever on it.
Then again in 2 days I move to TAG where there is lots of vertical and regular vertical practices so just being able to get on rope at least once a week will help, at least I will build up stamina. I have a friend who wants to run 700 ft (in one go) at least once a week so Ill have a ropebuddy.
Then again in 2 days I move to TAG where there is lots of vertical and regular vertical practices so just being able to get on rope at least once a week will help, at least I will build up stamina. I have a friend who wants to run 700 ft (in one go) at least once a week so Ill have a ropebuddy.
This is obviously a highly subjective area; I remember reading somewhere a recommendation (I think that it was in an American book or paper) that you should be able to prusik 100 ft in 5 minutes . . . but even that's open to query. On whose say so? And does it mean 'You should be able to do a 100 ft pitch in 5 min' or 'You should be able to keep up a rate of 20 ft/min indefinitely'? It doesn't sound too unreasonable to me ? but each to his own. When we did Torca del Carlista some years ago, the group of students who rigged it climbed the free-hanging 93 m section in times ranging from about ten and a half to 45 minutes ? which translates as ~29 ft/min to ~7 ft/min!
langcliffe
Well-known member
To get back to the original question, I would work on 4-5 minutes per person.
Leclused
Active member
If a take a look at differences in speed when we do the 400m pitches in the Anialarra System (PSM) :
Fastest : 1h30
SLowest : >4h
We are all average cavers but still there can be huge differences in speed. The differences can be explained by several reasons. Mostly they are linked to the persons itself. Firs of all there is the general condition of the caver but then there is also the day itself. If it was a hard day then the speed will drop. Also cave conditions will have an effect on the Ascend speed
In my personal case mu ascend speed in the 400m pitches was between 2h15 and 3h30. The 2h15 was in the beginning of the expidtion w/o a tackle bag. The 3h30 was after a 3-day underground with a heavy sherpa kit on my belt.
So my point is averages are dangerous when you want to calculate a durance of trip with a group. Fe if you have a group of 5 then you will plan 25minutes for the pitch. But it can become easily 1h when one person is very slow for one reason or another
BR
Dagobert L'Ecluse
Fastest : 1h30
SLowest : >4h
We are all average cavers but still there can be huge differences in speed. The differences can be explained by several reasons. Mostly they are linked to the persons itself. Firs of all there is the general condition of the caver but then there is also the day itself. If it was a hard day then the speed will drop. Also cave conditions will have an effect on the Ascend speed
In my personal case mu ascend speed in the 400m pitches was between 2h15 and 3h30. The 2h15 was in the beginning of the expidtion w/o a tackle bag. The 3h30 was after a 3-day underground with a heavy sherpa kit on my belt.
So my point is averages are dangerous when you want to calculate a durance of trip with a group. Fe if you have a group of 5 then you will plan 25minutes for the pitch. But it can become easily 1h when one person is very slow for one reason or another
BR
Dagobert L'Ecluse
Cave_Troll
Active member
its also about motivation.
I personally can't be arsed running up Titan
I personally can't be arsed running up Titan
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Rob's most recent contribution has potentially introduced confusion. He included the excavated entrance shaft which is separated from Titan itself by about 25 m of passage. Rob's numbers refer to the whole cavers' route from surface down via Titan to Far Sump Extension.
For students of speleogenesis the whole vein cavity (which is partly concealed by chokes in the surface shaft, chokes at the base of Titan itself and submerged chokes probably going down to the terminus of an inlet sump in Far Sump) probably has a vertical range of well over 200 m. However, in relation to the question posed and later discussion, Titan itself involves about 120 m of prussiking for most people doing the trade route. Yes, there is also a 45 m / 50 m entrance pitch. Hope that helps!
For students of speleogenesis the whole vein cavity (which is partly concealed by chokes in the surface shaft, chokes at the base of Titan itself and submerged chokes probably going down to the terminus of an inlet sump in Far Sump) probably has a vertical range of well over 200 m. However, in relation to the question posed and later discussion, Titan itself involves about 120 m of prussiking for most people doing the trade route. Yes, there is also a 45 m / 50 m entrance pitch. Hope that helps!
Leclused
Active member
paul said:
I used the PSM just as an extreme example. I only wanted to point out that averages are dangerous to calculate with. If one of the group members is in a bad condition then the 5min average climb can easily go up to 30min. And then the .... it will be midnight to get out of the cave
I had it once when I did a cave (Weron) her in belgium wich has some narrow pitches. There were 2 or 3 people who were not used to do naorrow pitches, but they were average to good cavers. It took us hours to get out the cave. I was lucky that I noticed it already when going down. And we only did the cave to -50m insted of -100m.
BR
Dagobert
