State of Croesor Rhosydd, and kit advice

[Mike Hopley]

I'm hearing conflicting information from people in my local cave club, who are planning a trip. One person is advocating spending ?300 on a pulley and a boat, which seems excessive to me.

So I have a few questions:

• What's the current state of the ropes? (I note some recent cause for concern.)
• Are there boats in situ?
• Should we take our own boat?

I have no special knowledge about inflatable boats. Would something cheap like this be adequate?

(I also intend to wear a buoyancy aid on this trip, and take some spare rope / rigging kit.)

 

[Brains]

Assume the rope are worn - pull them up and inspect prior to use and make your decision on what you find.
Nobody seems to take boats out, so there wikll be something there, just a question over how punctured, I would say take your cheap option as a back up.
Pulleys for the zip wire are best with steel wheels - alloy ones will not last the trip.
Try and exit the Rhosydd 9 adit rather than mess about climbing out the twll, its safer and makes a better trip.
Hope that helps

 

[Andyj23UK]

• 
  300 quid ?????????? WTF
  
  the pulley i use is :
  
  petzl trac
  
  which is the gucci cable pulley - though if you will be buying a pulley just for this trip , this :
  
  petzl tandem cable
  
  is far cheaper
  
  and you COULD save even more by buying a tandem pulley with steel shreaves  from ebay etc [ the shreaves HAVE TO BE  steel ]
  
  as for boats - the guy who bought the backup boat for one trip i did - spent IIRC ? 35 - to get a boat package with paddle and pump - that had a claimed 90kg weight limit - we " assumed " that this was a conservative max load - and our estimate of 100kg max for our largest explorer and all his kit would be accommodated safley
  
  i know people who use the boat you linked to - with out any proble carying one guy [ 75kg ] + kit 15kg ????
  
  
  so i dunno what the bloke estimating 300 for kit is planning to buy - but yes its excessive
  
  

  • What's the current state of the ropes?

  • 
    
    i have no idea - and even if brand new rope was fitted the day before your trip - someone could have damaged it or stoilen it before you arrive - assume the worst and be able to deal with it
    
    
    

    • Are there boats in situ?

    
    yes there are - there are several - again condition unknowable till you arrive and inspect them
    
    
    

    • Should we take our own boat?

    
    yes you should
  
  

  (I also intend to wear a buoyancy aid on this trip, and take some spare rope / rigging kit.)

  
  unless you are nervous in water - or a weak swimmer - i would suggest a boutancy aid will be ballast for most of the trip
  
  if someone does go in the drink - a pair of fleece pants , fleece sweater , hat and gloves in a drum / dry bag - will be more use - assuming you get them out the water alive
  
  i reccomend packing  rope - and have argued with others over this point - 50m is plenty and doesnt weigh too much - considering
  
  as for rigging - check EVERYTHING  on the abseils - pull the rope up to inspect it - and doble check knots / anchors and hardware - people have been known to " modify " the rigging - and on the first trip i did - we found critical point rigged with an snap gate krab - gate open 
  
  apart from that - have fun

 

[Mike Hopley]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

 

[Cookie]

if someone does go in the drink - a pair of fleece pants , fleece sweater , hat and gloves in a drum / dry bag - will be more use - assuming you get them out the water alive

But that's the critical bit, init? It's difficult to swim wearing SRT kit.

 

[darren]

I took some heavy duty plastic bags to fill with air and pack my SRT bag with.

Empty wine box bags are good I've been told.

 

[Geoff R]

Mike,  do phone a friend 
 
You have an extremely well qualified member within your Society who has just done this trip (with myself along as a guest) and he can pass on his professional advice about personal skills and equipment and explain everything in detail to you ... if you ask

 

[GT]

I certainly wouldn't attempt this trip without a rope, the last time we did it the in-situ rope on the second pitch had a near terminal fray at the attachment point, and if it wasn't for a diligent member of our group it could have been catastrophic!

There is now a large pulley fixed to the main zip line, however how long that zip line remains intact is anyones guess, expansion anchors, cable and slate is a unknown!

Also there has been an open canoe left in the mine, which is great if you can paddle and abseil into it, but if it should capsize with you in it it'll be near impossible to recover. So definitely take bouncy aids!

I wouldn't want to put you off, this is a wonderful trip, however I wouldn't under-estimate the severity of it. The mass of impressive rigging within the mine does somewhat sanitise what was once an epic adventure, however you are reliant on somebody else's rigging.

Enjoy

 

[zomjon]

Three trips through so far, each time with buoyancy aid - definitely helped when my boat went down in the first (shorter) crossing - now crossed by a bridge! also always taken cheapo boat (and excited with it), rope and cheaper tandem pulley.

 

[Mike Hopley]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. Food for thought!

But that's the critical bit, init? It's difficult to swim wearing SRT kit.

That was my rationale too.

There is now a large pulley fixed to the main zip line, however how long that zip line remains intact is anyones guess, expansion anchors, cable and slate is a unknown!

I think there is also a rope rigged parallel to the zip line (which would offer some redundancy). Is that correct?

The mass of impressive rigging within the mine does somewhat sanitise what was once an epic adventure, however you are reliant on somebody else's rigging.

I shall certainly be inspecting every rope.

Mike,  do phone a friend 
 
You have an extremely well qualified member within your Society who has just done this trip (with myself along as a guest) and he can pass on his professional advice about personal skills and equipment and explain everything in detail to you ... if you ask

Feel free to let me know who he is, or send me his contact details.

You've given a clue with "professional advice", so I think I can guess; but you could be helpful and actually tell me.

 

[Geoff R]

Mike,  do phone a friend 
 
You have an extremely well qualified member within your Society who has just done this trip (with myself along as a guest) and he can pass on his professional advice about personal skills and equipment and explain everything in detail to you ... if you ask

Feel free to let me know who he is, or send me his contact details.

You've given a clue with "professional advice", so I think I can guess; but you could be helpful and actually tell me.

Hi  Mike, 
Rather than name names,  suggest you look at your WCMS members section, latest trip reports and contact anyone on the recent trip to Croesor that you feel is appropriate. Someone well known, holding a CIC qualification (who you know I cave with) would be ideal; there are certainly also a few others on that trip who I personally trust with my life to give excellent advice,  if you would take the trouble to approach them (your club's membership list will no doubt give their contact details) 
Good Luck 

 

[Mike Hopley]

Someone well known, holding a CIC qualification would be ideal

Okay, that puts it beyond doubt. Thanks, and that's a good suggestion.

(By the way, there's also a PM function for when you want to keep information private.)

 

[vanoord]

Not been in there for a while, but would echo the above advice - in particular about being prepared to deal with something unexpected.

The boats in there tend to be the Bestway RX-3000 which has recently been replaced by a newer dual-chamber version which might last longer, but is twice as heavy.

One thing that is a must is a cord that can be used to pull-back pulleys etc. - this needs to be about 100ft long. If it's longer, all the better as although the wet double chamber has all sorts of weird and wonderful contraptions for pulling the boats back, they've invariably been buggered about with by someone and that's the point where a decent length of cord is needed.

Plus, long cows tails; or a short sling to extend a cows tail. Keep it about your person on the 'bridge of death' because if you do need it, you will need it!

 

[Hammy]

I did this trip not so long ago (22nd May) as an on sight solo excursion, in Croesor and out Rhosydd Adit 9.

I made sure that every obstacle I came to I had a strategy to reverse, so if there were any problems I was not marooned. As a result I concluded that there was no point in taking a rope or a boat as if any in situ ropes were in poor condition I would just changeover and backtrack, and if the boats were unserviceable I would also just reverse out.

I took a standard SRT kit, two tandem pulleys for steel cable, two slings so I could extend my cowstails and a bouyancy aid. This made for a pleasant trip as I wasn't carrying too much kit. I used all of the above.

I made sure that I had a strategy to pull myself back over the zipwire before I committed to it.

I had previously been in Rhosydd and scouted out the route through and was glad I did as it might be quite time consuming to work out where the exit to Adit 9 is. There is a survey of Rhosydd available online which might prove useful.

For my strategy to work everybody in the team needs to be SRT equipped and SRT competent and have their own pulleys.

The trip was thoroughly enjoyable and took an unrushed 2 hours 35 minutes door to door. I was back at my car for 1pm.

I have no idea if the state of fixed equipment has altered since May, but so long as you can go back out then it doesn't really matter.

After a thorough check I was quite happy to use the ropes, bridges, cables and boats that were in situ, but they may well have deteriorated or been removed since then.

 

[jaswa]

I've done it a fair few time, petzl tandem pully with steel wheels - at a push you'd probably get away with an ally one but it would be written off by the end of the day and you'd probably be blinded by the shards of ally shooting off it. Theres only one zip line (plus the option for a very very short second one on the second half of one of the bridges. The Zip line that went over the whole distance of the other bridge has now gone and is replaced with a traverse line instead.

I'd yes its definitly worth a boyancy aid - i've worn one every time and its not really got in the way much.

Boat wise, dylan and scotty recently lugged in the canadian canoe but i don't know if its still floating or not. If you opt not to take one theres always the option of a swim - but make sure you get moving again afterwards if you want to keep warm!

See my video below  which shows all the obstacles in their current state (as of a very few months ago) and the boat/swim option!

UCET - Croesor Rhosydd Through Trip - 2012

 

[simonsays]

That's a cracking video jaswa. Can I ask how you lit it?

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2

 

[badger]

Did the trip June this year, We inspected the ropes on all abseils, they where at that time ok, the first zip wire did have a pulley on it/ although we used our own, (purchased of e-bay) at the lake crossing, there was an insitu canoe on a pulley system so can be pulled back across, this we had to be careful with as due the angles could easily be pulled of the pulleys. and I can vouch that having done both exit's finding the adit is far easier than the climb out the twll.

 

[Mike Hopley]

Thanks all -- and great video, jaswa!

 

[undergroundHP]

Hi all.
Myself and 3 freinds went down yesterday( 27/6/13) and had a amazing trip!.
Nothing can prepare you for the size of the place- its massive! even with 2 scuron lamps the chambers seemed big.

equipment condition:
Pitch 1- all good
Pitch 2- knot in rope near bottom because of bad rope wear.- we used our own rope.
Zip wire- seemed fine, maby a bit slack but fine
ladder bridge- all fine
first bridge- wood very rotten but all fine
2nd/traverse- all ok
3rd bridge- lots of tat rope but once tangle sorted was fine.
The lake- the ropes were in a horrible mess. one of us had to jump in to go get the canoe but once sored the ropes all fine.

general handlines throughout seemed fine.

Please remember things change in the mine so be carefull! please dont take my word for things when you go. it may have changed. be prepaird for anything!

most of all enjoy!!

 

[Blakethwaite]

Have always wondered whether this trip would be so popular if someone ripped all the gear out?

The original CAT write up is one of the best bits of writing on mine exploring for the sake of mine exploring. Now the trip is as far removed from exploring as its possible to get...