Stull or Stemple

[robjones]

C.Le Neve Foster "A treatise on ore and ston e mining", 6th ed,  London, 1905, p.349:

"The process of overhand stoping ... the work is commenced from a rise, or better, from the two ends of a winze. As soon as the men have excavated sufficient height of the level, they put in strong pieces of timber from wall to wall (stempels, stull-pieces), and cover these cross-pieces with boards or poles, and throw down the rubbish upon the platform (stull) thus formed..."

Foster was H.M.Inspector of Mines for the South West District and previously had been inspector for non-ferrous mines in Wales. His use of these terms may somewhat reflect his experience in these regions.

W.Hooson "The miners dictionary...", Wrexham, 1747 (Hooson described himself as "a Derbyshire miner" on the title page):

"Stemple. Such a piece of wood be it great or little, that is set between the two sides or to support a rock; the one end is called the egg end, being so like the end of an egg, for which there is made a stope in the side to set it into; the other is called the head end, not cut even, but sloped a little, that it may the better be driven into its place, the use of these are to climb by, or for making bundings, and many other useful things in the work."

The word stull does not have an entry in this book.

"Bunding. A kind of scaffold, made in any vacancy already cut out in the work, but always some room reserved under it for wind, or water to pass, or for some gate, or some other conveniency as the miner shall contrive and thinks fit to answer his purpose best; they are made with good and strong stemples, firmly set between the two hard sides at a convenient distance, so as to be able to bear the weight designed to be put on them; then upon these stemples are laid bangerts or crufts or boards, or any course slabbs that will hold the weight between the stemples of what is to be coated thereon; in scrins they are usually made by choaking in long stones between the two sydes, instead of stemples; shafts are likewise bunding'd over when the miner has done with them, if any sides be to the day, rather than bestow the pains to fill them all up."

 

[Brains]

Thanks Rob, some good info there 

 

[peterrivington]

Am I right in thinking the term "solar" is applied to a platform between ladders to allow transition from one to another, as distinct from a working platform that could be a stull?

Yes.
Don't forget though nothing is engraved in stone, a saying could 'catch on' in a particular mine or area.

I have heard the term "weasel", no that is one to ponder on.

Weazels, in Furness was a winze sunk below the bottom level.  The mineral agent dissaproved strongly, referring to the practice as "picking the fruit before it is ripe" and "working all upside down".

 

[royfellows]

Am I right in thinking the term "solar" is applied to a platform between ladders to allow transition from one to another, as distinct from a working platform that could be a stull?

Yes.
Don't forget though nothing is engraved in stone, a saying could 'catch on' in a particular mine or area.

I have heard the term "weasel", no that is one to ponder on.

Weazels, in Furness was a winze sunk below the bottom level.  The mineral agent dissaproved strongly, referring to the practice as "picking the fruit before it is ripe" and "working all upside down".

That was my understanding of the term but didn't know which locality used it.

 

[Brains]

"Such a piece of wood be it great or little, that is set between the two sides or to support a rock; the one end is called the egg end, being so like the end of an egg, for which there is made a stope in the side to set it into; the other is called the head end, not cut even, but sloped a little, that it may the better be driven into its place, the use of these are to climb by, or for making bundings, and many other useful things in the work."

I have heard the term "egg and eye" for this kind of work, where a hollow is cut in the rock (the eye) to take the end of the timber (the egg), which is then wedged across the gap. In the past we have used stemples to explore old stopes, cutting to length and hammering in to position as required. Luckily we didnt need to cut  eyes as the cheeks were rough enough to provide enough lodgement

 

[pwhole]

I have had occasion to take my own 'stemple' underground - half a hickory pickaxe handle that I spent a month treating with linseed oil until it was more or less waterproof. It's worked great for spanning the occasional gap of great depth, but its best use (the one I created it for) was for climbing up the Titan streamway cascades - jammed in the 'spout' of the cascade with etriers threaded on. It doesn't damage the rock, floats, and is quite handy for hitting things with too.

I've been in some Derbyshire lead mines with some quite spectacular hading veins (or flats, depending on your preference - many are at 45? so either is fine!), especially around Hassop Common, and in those the roof is 'propped' in much the same way as the Cornish mines, or even coal mines. As they're so localised, it's unlikely any generic term was used for them as they would not have been written about outside their own accounts, but they'd certainly qualify as 'stulls' in one or two sections.

 

[SamT]

How long do we thing tanalised 3 by 2 would last as a stemple. 

Some of the stemples I've been standing on recently must be 300 year or older and have been surprisingly sound (though others were like sponge!!)

 

[AR]

Personally I suspect they're about half that age if you're talking about a certain chamber of horrors we've  been in recently though it's hard to say sometimes. A well-preserved stemple in theory could be dendro-dated but all the reference material tends to be big structural timbers, usually oak, rather than smaller limbs from ash or hazel so I'm not sure how well you'd be able to fit a sample to the existing tree-ring sequences. Could be a research project for someone, citing the NAMHO research agenda on the funding application...

 

[royfellows]

How long do we thing tanalised 3 by 2 would last as a stemple. 

Some of the stemples I've been standing on recently must be 300 year or older and have been surprisingly sound (though others were like sponge!!)

A lot of it is the timber they used.
A lot of 20th C working used rubbish, eg Parc Lead Mine at Llanrwst, but you go through to Cwffty and everything is sound. Back in Parc, 8 inch timber you can put your hand through.

Pitch Pine was used a lot in Cornwall, its a sound today as was in the 1800s when it was put in.

 

[Brains]

As Roy says, untreated pitch pine lasts very well, much better than oak. The cranes in the Wilts Quarrys show this dramatically, the P-Pine are still standing, the oak have rotted away. Big structures like the slate quarry bridges and the great stemples and stulls will mostly be pitch pine. Ash is a very good structural hardwood and will last quite well. For wet applications such as launders (wooden "drains") then elm is possibly the best.

 

[pwhole]

I've climbed on stemples in Odin that were rock-hard and bone-dry, and easily 300 years old - it depends where they are I guess.

One other side-topic that's always intrigued me, especially in areas like the High Peak, is whether timbers were purchased in from some distance, as local stocks of damp-resistant varieties may have been in short supply. The Forestry Commission wasn't around in those days, and we (presumably) weren't growing the Scandanavian pines and firs in volume then. So if they needed, say, larch, was there enough nearby to go round? And possibly did they use inferior woods as that was all they could get?

Climbing-ways I guess could get by with crap, as they were easily replaced, but you didn't want to be permanently supporting a roof with such rubbish, especially if the mine's working lifespan was in decades, or even centuries. Timbers from 1650 would be just as scary to miners of 1850 as they are today if they'd been done badly!

 

[royfellows]

I believe that pitch pine was imported. Cornwall wasn't exactly covered by forest and at the peak time there were 1500 different mining companies operating at the same time.

There were 2 really good videos made by Crofty years ago available on VHS, quality was a bit poor by modern standards, but still worth watching. St Just miner Dom Hudson is in both, together with a few more familiar faces. Both vids are very educational and he goes at length to explain quite a lot.

 

[Brains]

I believe a lot of the smaller Peak timbering was done with local wood, like Blackthorn, Ash and whatever could be had. Exporting of big pine baulks has long been a key feature of Scandinavia and the Hanseatic League. I think a lot of the pre 1800 ish miners would have built in stone for durability, and timbers would be reused wherever possible. Later in the Victorian age it became cheaper to import timber than to pay masons to slab or arch the mines. Some places, like Leviathan, timber was the only option and the work stands as a testament to the timbermans craft and skill at selecting and setting the beams that are still visible today

 

[Wayland Smith]

One South Crofty video by British Path?.
Shows lots of traditional working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CtvhMVQxLo

 

[AR]

One other side-topic that's always intrigued me, especially in areas like the High Peak, is whether timbers were purchased in from some distance, as local stocks of damp-resistant varieties may have been in short supply. The Forestry Commission wasn't around in those days, and we (presumably) weren't growing the Scandanavian pines and firs in volume then. So if they needed, say, larch, was there enough nearby to go round? And possibly did they use inferior woods as that was all they could get?

The mining laws gave miners the right to take timber for mining use from the lord of the field's wood (i.e woods belonging to the mineral rights owner) but this would largely have been coppiced ash and hazel of a size fit for stemples but not much else, while larger material would have been in short supply and probably had to be bought in. Certainly, the big timbers for engine pump rods would have been imported, probably Scandinavian pine coming in through Hull and up to Bawtry - I do wonder if careful research would show the evidence of the carts taking lead out of the Peak bringing timber back; then as now hauliers don't like to do an empty journey! Elm for woodwork in damp locations was probably brought in too but would have been available from sources much closer.

 

[mikem]

Odhams encyclopaedia for children reckons Canada, though from what year?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_prop

Mike

 

[SamT]

It was actually a serious question..

would your average tanalised 3x2" timber be any cop as a modern stemple in terms of not being rotten in 10 years time...

What life span in a not too damp an average derbyshire lead mine would you expect.

 

[bograt]

It was actually a serious question..

would your average tanalised 3x2" timber be any cop as a modern stemple in terms of not being rotten in 10 years time...

What life span in a not too damp an average derbyshire lead mine would you expect.

Properly Tanalised fence posts are supposed to be good for 20 years, but are only warranted for 10, I understand its the same for roofing laths ?.

I seem to recall that a miners claim in the Peak District involved the planting of a Hawthorn Tree, very difficult to work with but I have seen stemples made of it.

I also remember a very intense chat with J.S.B. about his trip down Watergrove when the water dried up, and he showed me pictures of massive big telegraph pole sized stemples (-Stulls??) bridging the vein which had been snapped when the weight came on as the water receded, these pictures will be in the collection somewhere?.
Unfortunately the purpose of this exploration was to investigate and restore water to the pumps supplying Cavendish Mill, so after exploration they blew the water gates and flooded the lot!!. There must be a really interesting perched water table in that area, John called it a 'saddle' between Wardlow Mires dip and Middleton Dale.
Apparently the water gates were incredibly well engineered stone dams blocking the water off partway down the shaft, blowing them allowed water into the lower workings where the pumps were located.

 

[mikem]

Unfortunately the purpose of this exploration was to investigate and restore water to the pumps supplying Cavendish Mill, so after exploration they blew the water gates and flooded the lot!!. There must be a really interesting perched water table in that area, John called it a 'saddle' between Wardlow Mires dip and Middleton Dale.
Apparently the water gates were incredibly well engineered stone dams blocking the water off partway down the shaft, blowing them allowed water into the lower workings where the pumps were located.

Not that there is a water "table" in limestone, presumably the workings are in rock with very little faulting, so there is nowhere for the water to escape, except spilling over the top.

Mike

 

[Brains]

It was actually a serious question..

would your average tanalised 3x2" timber be any cop as a modern stemple in terms of not being rotten in 10 years time...

What life span in a not too damp an average derbyshire lead mine would you expect.

Short answer - don't know! However, I think ten tears would be a reasonable minimum, provided the timber was of good quality as regards knots splits and shakes, all of which will weaken the wood and provide a way in for water to pool and cause rot etc. I would go for the biggest size available for preference, but having said that load skids* made of hardwood would be acceptable

*Lengths of wood used in place of a pallet when loading a wagon with oversize cargo (planks etc). Some may have a groove for banding tape to be fed through. Typically 1.2m long and at least 2x2, maybe 3x3