SWCC owns Ogof Ffynnon Ddu I

[Amy]

Congratulations!!! major purchase and sounds awesome, that is one that Les took me to when I was there, I loved it. I'm glad access is secure should I get back there...since I would love to do another trip in it It's neat to actually own caves, I hope one day to have one on my own property, how sweet would that be? Here in the states a lot of landowners don't like 'em on their land I hear so it can make purchase cheaper to have a cave 0.o go figure! hahah. Right now in the states, we'd not be caving at all if it weren't for privately owned caves - a lot of which caver/cave organization owned because of all on fed land being closed. Only way to know for sure the cave will be managed and accessed properly is if it's owned and managed by cavers for cavers, impo! Great job!

 

[Rhys]

Several generations of the same family have been kind enough to put up with cavers going through their garden to get to the cave... the chances of a new landowner welcoming cavers into his/her garden were extremely slim.

To be fair, the cave is not in the garden and the route to it need never have been through the garden/yard of Y Grithig had the owners not wanted it to be so. Years ago they could've arranged access from the public footpath nearby or through the fields from the public road above or below. However, I think they preferred to be able to keep an eye on the comings and goings, probably because of their interest in the water suppy and because the family were also into caving themselves.

That said, I'm glad my club now owns the entrance as it is safeguarded for good by a body I that I can trust. Well done.

Rhys

 

[Rhys]

The BEC, I believe, has a lease on the entrance to Cuthberts (which a lawyer will tell you equates to 'owns') and the Charterhouse CC Ltd, a consortium of clubs has a lease on GB and Charterhouse caves.

In some respects a lease may equate to "owns", but an important difference would seem to be that a lease can be terminated by a landlord so is not guaranteed. Compulsary purchase orders aside, ownership of land generally should be permanent.

Rhys

 

[graham]

The BEC, I believe, has a lease on the entrance to Cuthberts (which a lawyer will tell you equates to 'owns') and the Charterhouse CC Ltd, a consortium of clubs has a lease on GB and Charterhouse caves.

In some respects a lease may equate to "owns", but an important difference would seem to be that a lease can be terminated by a landlord so is not guaranteed. Compulsary purchase orders aside, ownership of land generally should be permanent.

Rhys

I'd need to get the wife in on this one, but she's retired now. I do not know the terms of the BEC lease but I do know the terms of the CCC Ltd one on GB and that is for a fixed term. You now hold OFD in what used to be called 'fee simple' which still means you hold it, in effect, from the Crown and so although the term is not fixed the principle is the same and it can in certain circumstances be taken off you by law.

It won't be, and neither will GB be taken off us, because our interest, as with the freeholder's is in conserving it.

Anyway, that's all very technical and by the by. You've done the right thing & all UK cavers should be grateful to you.

 

[Jopo]

Rhys is right in most respects but access from the public footpath, known as the Pant, required the permission of a third party who owns a strip of land between the Pant and Grithig land.
The club did indeed negotiate a access across this strip by permission and erected a stile over the boundary fence - which meant cavers no longer had to pass through the Grithig garden. Unfortunately some cavers have used the 'old route' in spite of the Grithig owners erecting a fence across the old path - which is the southern boundary fence of the land now owned by SWCC - and have caused damage which has of course displeased Ruth. The sale of the Grithig plot is imminent(and by now be completed) and I echo Tony Bakers plea for cavers to use the route from the Pant footpath and over the stile.
Having met the prospective (new?) owner he seems a very personable guy but having cavers crossing his land may piss him off.
You can access the Pant from the Grithig lane by going past the Grithig entrance and up to the stile or down the Pant through the gate just past the bungalow on the right going down the hill.
Jopo

 

[cap n chris]

Can a highlighted route on a map/jpg be posted here, please?

 

[Tony_B]

There is a description and photos here:

http://www.swcc.org.uk/news/article.php?id=105

Please note that since these pictures were taken the wooden gate has been moved further up the path, but the wall is obvious enough.

Despite my having posted the information about the new route on UKC, a notice being put on the gate of the cottage and prominent notices being put up at Penwyllt, cavers are STILL using the route through the cottage garden. Can everyone please make sure that the information is disseminated quickly through the caving community? Put it in your club journal, on your club website and tell everyone at your next pub meet! Thanks.

 

[Rhys]

Can a highlighted route on a map/jpg be posted here, please?

Red line is the walking route down from Penwyllt.
Blue line is the walking route from the laybys at the bottom of the hill.

Rhys

 

[shortscotsman]

Out of curiosity,

Will the spring still be used as a water supply?  i.e. will cavers still need to liaise with the homeowners before midweek trips

 

[AA Speleo]

There is a description and photos here:

http://www.swcc.org.uk/news/article.php?id=105

Please note that since these pictures were taken the wooden gate has been moved further up the path, but the wall is obvious enough.

Despite my having posted the information about the new route on UKC, a notice being put on the gate of the cottage and prominent notices being put up at Penwyllt, cavers are STILL using the route through the cottage garden. Can everyone please make sure that the information is disseminated quickly through the caving community? Put it in your club journal, on your club website and tell everyone at your next pub meet! Thanks.

I know some people will always remain "thick" but considering the Key has to be given out, at that time, an explanation of which way to approach from who ever gives out the Key should surely do the job, I also agree with Tony please put word around to your club members about the new access path arrangements.

 

[Tony_B]

Will the spring still be used as a water supply?  i.e. will cavers still need to liaise with the homeowners before midweek trips

I'm not sure but I would guess so. The sale of the house is not yet complete, as far as I know, but even when the new owner takes possession he may not be occupying the house for a while; it needs some renovation work and this may preclude living in the property for the time being.

Although SWCC has been in contact with the new owner we haven't yet got as far as discussing details like the water supply, as and when more information is available I'll keep everyone posted.