The untapped scientific potential in caves on the clwydian range
- Thread starter alastairgott
- Start date
alastairgott
Well-known member
Ian Adams said:
Probably wont be any homes for bats when the winter takes its course.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
Although operations likely to require consent / PDOs may be similar within one area, there is variability between areas. For example the Mendip PDOs include "Modification of the entrance (except as part of normal caving activities such as surface or underground digging to seek new caves or entrances) to Swildon?s Hole, Eastwater Cavern and Hunter?s Hole, including their blocking or infilling. ". It is worth reading with great care the full citation and list of operations requiring consent for the land you are focused on. And as I said, if the activity is not covered by a need to gain consent, then one does not require a consent. (Though it is no doubt worth while informing the relevant body as a matter of courtesy.)AR said:
alastairgott
Well-known member
[quote author=NRW SSSI https://naturalresources.wales/media/638451/SSSI_0241_SMS_EN001f961.pdf]3.7 The Alyn Gorge Caves, comprising three cave systems within the Carboniferous
Limestone
The caves should continue to demonstrate how geological structure, lithology and
water flow influence passage profile. The range and distribution of sediments
deposited in the caves should also continue to provide evidence of the solution and
stream processes that have occurred over time. A variety of calcite formations should
occur throughout the caves, providing an insight into the history of the caves and the
contemporary environments. Access to the three cave systems, namely Ogof Hesp
Alyn, Ogof Hen Ffynhonnau and Ogof Nadolig, should be available for legitimate
study and research.[/quote]
I propose a study of Ogof Nadolig with the backing of the British Cave Research Association into the upstream cave morphology currently blocked with sediment. Due to the removal of Sediment, Samples of the sediment will be taken at intervals and provided to the Geologists at the British cave research association for analysis.
All we need to do is frame the dig correctly, get the backing from BCRA and submit the proposal to NRW.
Limestone
The caves should continue to demonstrate how geological structure, lithology and
water flow influence passage profile. The range and distribution of sediments
deposited in the caves should also continue to provide evidence of the solution and
stream processes that have occurred over time. A variety of calcite formations should
occur throughout the caves, providing an insight into the history of the caves and the
contemporary environments. Access to the three cave systems, namely Ogof Hesp
Alyn, Ogof Hen Ffynhonnau and Ogof Nadolig, should be available for legitimate
study and research.[/quote]
I propose a study of Ogof Nadolig with the backing of the British Cave Research Association into the upstream cave morphology currently blocked with sediment. Due to the removal of Sediment, Samples of the sediment will be taken at intervals and provided to the Geologists at the British cave research association for analysis.
All we need to do is frame the dig correctly, get the backing from BCRA and submit the proposal to NRW.
alastairgott
Well-known member
I have had a number of Private messages, many thanks to those who have done so.
I will attempt to reply tomorrow.
Building on a topic in one of the messages. In the SSSI guidance it has a number of objectives to improve the SSSI of the caves.
Some of the work which is outlined in the SSSI guidance is all but underway, with data being collected which will greatly help with the production of an objective.
One of the things it talks about is "Education" of the visitors, which got me thinking.
Would it be ok if we made up some signs for the entrances?
My idea would be to produce a less hasty and better copy of this:
Obviously, will need to get rid of Natural England and move the Number 5) but this is the best I could be bothered with in PAINT. (and I'm aware that the points are not actually the minimal impact caving Guidelines either, but I was only doing a quick copy paste job :chair: )
If people think it's a crap idea, then that's fine, but I'm sure if the sign is for "education" then we could see if there's some money in BCA's training coffers to cover 3 full colour signs for the Alyn Valley.
I will attempt to reply tomorrow.
Building on a topic in one of the messages. In the SSSI guidance it has a number of objectives to improve the SSSI of the caves.
Some of the work which is outlined in the SSSI guidance is all but underway, with data being collected which will greatly help with the production of an objective.
One of the things it talks about is "Education" of the visitors, which got me thinking.
Would it be ok if we made up some signs for the entrances?
My idea would be to produce a less hasty and better copy of this:
Obviously, will need to get rid of Natural England and move the Number 5) but this is the best I could be bothered with in PAINT. (and I'm aware that the points are not actually the minimal impact caving Guidelines either, but I was only doing a quick copy paste job :chair: )
If people think it's a crap idea, then that's fine, but I'm sure if the sign is for "education" then we could see if there's some money in BCA's training coffers to cover 3 full colour signs for the Alyn Valley.
Andy Farrant
Active member
Just a comment. If you want support from the BCRA for a proposed research project, then you can apply to the Cave Science and Technology Research Fund (CSTRF) to fund sediment or other analyses. But you will need to have a good project proposal with definite aims and a hypothesis to test. Simply providing samples of sediment to "the Geologists at the British cave research association for analysis" won't get you anywhere.
For information, the BCRA does not employ geologists, nor does it undertake geological or any other analyses. Rather, the BCRA does have members who are geologists, some of whom may volunteer to assist cavers with bona fide scientific projects if they are worthwhile and interesting - the key phrase here is 'volunteer'.
If you are suggesting a comprehensive study of the geomorphology and sedimentology of the Alyn Gorge Caves, possibly backed up with some speleothem dates along the lines of that done for Ogof Draenen (see Cave & Karst Science 38(1)) then you may have more luck.
Andy
For information, the BCRA does not employ geologists, nor does it undertake geological or any other analyses. Rather, the BCRA does have members who are geologists, some of whom may volunteer to assist cavers with bona fide scientific projects if they are worthwhile and interesting - the key phrase here is 'volunteer'.
If you are suggesting a comprehensive study of the geomorphology and sedimentology of the Alyn Gorge Caves, possibly backed up with some speleothem dates along the lines of that done for Ogof Draenen (see Cave & Karst Science 38(1)) then you may have more luck.
Andy
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