Who represents me?

[cap n chris]

To summarise: Traff needs to join BCA if there's to be any representation!

 

[crickleymal]

The BCA by only balloting their members only represents their members.

I'll re-iterate, the BCA purports to represent all cavers.

Whilst the data set I've presented cannot be considered truly representative, it should not be dismissed out of hand. Whether you like it or not there is a huge number of unrepresented cavers out there.

I'm suggesting the ballot is in fact pointless as it almost certainly won't be a true representation of UK cavers. I strongly suspect the opinion within the unaffiliated will be a resounding yes, way out gunning the no camp.

Yes but whether or not it purports to represent all cavers, how can it represent you or your views IF you don't communicate with it or participate (by joining presumably) in it?

Are you suggesting that the BCA should ballot ALL cavers and if so please let us know how on earth it should do that?

The circular arguments on here should show you that even trying to garner a representative opinion from a forum is a pretty useless task.

 

[traff]

Excellent, some interesting responses. I fully expected the arguments about it can only represent its members and if you want your say then join. Valid they are.

In Britain we are all expected if we drive a car on the roads to have car insurance..


To responsibly cover the possibility of accident where either we or someone else is hurt....

Those who chose to drive about without insurance are a liability to themselves and others.

Being an active caver and being a member of BCA and therefore buying insurance is just the same as the above.

Therefore BCA represents responsible cavers

Taff .... Do you drive? and do you chose not to buy car  insurance?....

Taff..... Do you cave and do you chose not to buy cave specific liability insurance...

richardg, this is totally irrelevant to the point of discussion. Please get my name right and I'm not fond of the insinuation that I'm irresponsible. There are other ways of obtaining liability insurance.

Traff, an interesting point well made. Depending on the outcome of the CRoW Ballot BCA may need to amend a section of its consitution next year. If so, we will also be looking at other parts to amend at the same time. I will add this to the list. Thanks.

Damian Weare
BCA Secretary

Thank you for making the amendment. However there is more wording that needs to be addressed. Perhaps you should leave it on the agenda.

I strongly suspect the opinion within the unaffiliated will be a resounding yes, way out gunning the no camp.

Suspect ain't good enough. Collect some data, if you can.

Graham, many of your arguments appear to based on opinion and without hard evidence. However I will bite. Of the sample set I quoted I am still in contact with some. I made contact with five of them, surprise surprise, they all were in favour of CRoW applying to caving. Anecdotal it may be but I maintain there are a huge number of unaffiliated cavers out there in favour of CRoW.

The BCA perhaps need to acknowledge the existence of others and pursue the CRoW act if for no other purpose than seeking clarity for the masses.

Also I note that non-cavers can join the BCA, do they get a say in the matter? Just playing devils advocate.

 

[graham]

Graham, many of your arguments appear to based on opinion and without hard evidence. However I will bite. Of the sample set I quoted I am still in contact with some. I made contact with five of them, surprise surprise, they all were in favour of CRoW applying to caving. Anecdotal it may be but I maintain there are a huge number of unaffiliated cavers out there in favour of CRoW.

The BCA perhaps need to acknowledge the existence of others and pursue the CRoW act if for no other purpose than seeking clarity for the masses.

Also I note that non-cavers can join the BCA, do they get a say in the matter? Just playing devils advocate.

My arguments are based on the fact that the people wishing us to make this move have no certainty about the outcomes. That is fact. My hard facts are plain, we do, actually, know how things operate at present,

The BCA need acknowledge no-one except those who acknowledge the BCA.

 

[droid]

Old proverb: 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

 

[Peter Burgess]

No representation without taxation!

 

[damian]

Thank you for making the amendment. However there is more wording that needs to be addressed. Perhaps you should leave it on the agenda.

Perhaps you could let me know what you feel needs changing and I will look at it.

 

[Gollum]

BCA represents it's members. It don't matter how many people want to get on their soap box and moan, thats who they represent.
Why are people wasting good caving time even discussing this?
Either make change by joining and voting or find all the other millions of none BCA members and get together to make change.

 

[Cookie]

I've just amended BCA's website to say "It represents individuals and groups with ...". Sorry for any confusion, traff.

Damian Weare
BCA Secretary

Do you think BCA will receive any praise for responding to its (non) members and acting within 12 hours?

 

[Bottlebank]

I've just amended BCA's website to say "It represents individuals and groups with ...". Sorry for any confusion, traff.

Damian Weare
BCA Secretary

Do you think BCA will receive any praise for responding to its (non) members and acting within 12 hours?

Is this the page referred to? http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:start

 

[Cookie]

Is this the page referred to? http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:start

Reckon so.

 

[martinm]

I think all cavers should join BCA. Support your national organisation. You can get insurance at a reasonable price, support conservation & access works in the various  caving regions and support authoritative negotiations with various UK government bodies where necessary. I think it's a bargain. 

 

[droid]

The only reason I'm in the BCA is for the insurance. Can't (apparently) go underground with either of the clubs I'm in without it.

 

[cap n chris]

Support your national organisation. You can get insurance at a reasonable price...

Unbelievably reasonable actually as the insurance provided by BCA is totally free; they do not sell insurance. It is a benefit of membership.