Work till you're musclebound...

[pwhole]

A new study has just shown that small amounts of muscle-strengthening exercise can have massive improvement on overall health - so yet another good reason to go caving. A recent family event, where I met many folks I havent seen for ages, and where I was clearly the only person getting any regular exercise, was rather illuminating - several asked me about my caving activity and some also commented on how 'young' and 'fit' I looked - this is all relative, naturally (especially as I popped out for a fag halfway through), but I wasn't going to dispute it as they were correct. So we all need to keep our arses moving, basically

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/28/muscle-strengthening-lowers-risk-of-death-from-all-causes-study-shows

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2022/01/19/bjsports-2021-105061

The analysis included studies with participant numbers varying from about 4,000 to 480,000, and ranged in age from 18 to 97. It showed that muscle strengthening was associated with a 10% to 17% lower risk of death from any cause, heart disease, cancer and diabetes.

Researchers said the maximum risk reduction of between 10% and 20% was found at 30 to 60 minutes a week of muscle strengthening activities for death from any cause, heart disease and cancer. An L-shaped association was observed for diabetes, with a large risk reduction up to 60 minutes/week of muscle strengthening activities, after which there was a gradual tapering off.

 

[Paul Marvin]

A new study has just shown that small amounts of muscle-strengthening exercise can have massive improvement on overall health - so yet another good reason to go caving. A recent family event, where I met many folks I havent seen for ages, and where I was clearly the only person getting any regular exercise, was rather illuminating - several asked me about my caving activity and some also commented on how 'young' and 'fit' I looked - this is all relative, naturally (especially as I popped out for a fag halfway through), but I wasn't going to dispute it as they were correct. So we all need to keep our arses moving, basically

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/28/muscle-strengthening-lowers-risk-of-death-from-all-causes-study-shows

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2022/01/19/bjsports-2021-105061

The analysis included studies with participant numbers varying from about 4,000 to 480,000, and ranged in age from 18 to 97. It showed that muscle strengthening was associated with a 10% to 17% lower risk of death from any cause, heart disease, cancer and diabetes.

Researchers said the maximum risk reduction of between 10% and 20% was found at 30 to 60 minutes a week of muscle strengthening activities for death from any cause, heart disease and cancer. An L-shaped association was observed for diabetes, with a large risk reduction up to 60 minutes/week of muscle strengthening activities, after which there was a gradual tapering off.

Lot of truth there Phil . The NHS staff have a saying and its " use them or loose them " meaning legs and its so true . I don't do too bad but I've busted my gut at the gym for 45 years as well as a manual job, what has started to hold me back recently is injuries,  perhaps trained and played  bit too hard  :-\ 

 

[royfellows]

I am not doing too bad at 77 so must be something in it. Mind, I aren?t human anyway, right Paul?

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I'm sadly no powerlifter but better than the average gym goers who mostly seem to want to do endless biceps curls while eyeing themselves up in a mirror. But so-what if I could, before catching covid (and training back again... hope to have it back soon)  strict press [that's OHP with no leg cheating] tantalisingly nearly my own bodyweight: the oldschool litmus test of not being weak, or double overhand Deadlift (no straps or mixed) double bodyweight? a watered down litmus test of not being weak.

Show me the mine exploring (or caving) that requires something in the 0-5 rep range and I'll be good, but I've yet to see or hear anything much there needing that. Isn't underground stuff about endurance? Which is one reason why I'm quite poor at this stuff    gym strength is not exactly useless underground, but a close thing

As much as I enjoy doing [barbell] squats 3 times a week, I think muscular endurance and strength-endurance is probably a bigger component to health not actual muscular strength. And endurance and strength-endurance are the same kind of adaptions you get from doing hard work. Gym strength is very specific, not very transferable (although very enjoyable)

Like a balanced diet needs variety from different food groups, exercise needs variety too from different exercise groups (strength, endurance, flexibility, LISS cardio, HIIT cardio) I think pwhole's  keep your arses moving is probably better advice for health and longevity than gym strength training - sorry Paul  (You have the look of a powerlifter?).

But it's a pet hate/trigger of mine that articles/studies like these become subverted by big companies advertising that it's "proof" that you have to join a/their gym to become fit and healthy because of their "scientific expertise" and all the very complicated special equipment they have which is "essential"
[/rant] sorry!

 

[tomferry]

Stamina has never been a serious issue for me did buy myself some weights and a x trainer after my job change though have to admit I noticed I was going out of shape ,  when you stop digging to services /tarmacing /drainage and start doing a more cardio style job you notice the muscle loss , because I love digging choose to keep in shape for it  and for a better health also .

Regarding you roy you are not exactly a normal human ! I think the keep going and don?t stop plays a major part of it all myself 

 

[underground]

I'm sadly no powerlifter but better than the average gym goers

As much as I enjoy doing [barbell] squats 3 times a week, I think muscular endurance and strength-endurance is probably a bigger component to health not actual muscular strength. And endurance and strength-endurance are the same kind of adaptions you get from doing hard work. Gym strength is very specific, not very transferable (although very enjoyable)

[/rant] sorry!

I was sort of bodybuilding, insofar as I was targetting every muscle group every workout, but really going for strength and progressive overload aiming for hypertrophy so rep ranges between 10 and 20 depending on the lift. Compound lifts I'd also do a second lot of sets at a lower weight to build the volume.

In my experience it was totally transferable, i suspect mainly due to the other activities I was doing - but also the increased vascularity and metabolic response. Two specific examples come to mind both of which were a total surprise (and I suspect would have seen similar results had I been caving at the time as my core, shoulders, back etc were all really strong)

1. Pretty much ran up Kinder having not been for a walk up a hill for ages. It was only at the top I suddenly realised I'd not been out of breath, broken much of a sweat or felt my legs complaining.
2. Nipped out for a bike ride for the first time in a couple of years. Straight up the steep hill up to Beeley Moor, out of the saddle, accelerating, only half way up the cassette. Couldn't even do that when I was cycling several times a week and doing 100km rides.

I suppose my point, if there is one, is that although there's no substitute for specifics, I'm not sure it's useless. Having said that I'd have struggled to fit in any caving at the time but I can well imagine the efficiency of movement and reading the cave wouldn't have been substituted by repetitive exercise in a gym

 

[Cantclimbtom]

...Regarding you roy you are not exactly a normal human !

From the posts here he sounds like some kind of terminator robot? in his AV/pic his eyes aren't shown glowing red, I think that's just because his switch is set in walk mode not full beam?

 

[royfellows]

You haven't seen me do Bassai Dai!

I notice things.
At the karate club when I am learning new kata I go slow to get it right. One I am familiar with, yes, I am like a terminator robot. People tend to ensure that they are not in my path.
There really is nothing like karate for keeping fit. You are using muscles you didn't even think were there. And they are ones that ache when you go to bed

 

[mikem]

If you don't maintain muscle it will quickly turn to fat, stamina is far better long term (in all sorts of ways!)

 

[underground]

If you don't maintain muscle it will quickly turn to fat, stamina is far better long term (in all sorts of ways!)

Muscle can't turn into fat.. also how do you define stamina? It's still a function of muscular endurance as well as vascular performance which is massively helped by good quality muscle, surely?

 

[Cantclimbtom]

If you don't maintain muscle it will quickly turn to fat, stamina is far better long term (in all sorts of ways!)

There is an argument... maybe the various docs on here can filter nonsense from truth? that with age muscles naturally deteriorate (sarcopenia, which is obviously mitigated by exercising) however the type 2 muscle fibres (strength, "fast twitch") are usually worse affected by that than type1 muscle fibres (endurance, "slow twitch) and that's why you probably know a very elderly person who can walk to the shops and back happily but can't open a jam jar.
According to this theory it becomes increasingly important to include an element of strength training into activity as we age. So maybe we all need both stamina and strength training, but strength training increasingly with age? Dunno, it's a nice sounding theory anyhow

 

[Paul Marvin]

I am not doing too bad at 77 so must be something in it. Mind, I aren?t human anyway, right Paul?

Ha Ha to true Roy . BUT you do all your martial arts and stuff and very active ! that's why 

 

[Paul Marvin]

If you don't maintain muscle it will quickly turn to fat, stamina is far better long term (in all sorts of ways!)

There is an argument... maybe the various docs on here can filter nonsense from truth? that with age muscles naturally deteriorate (sarcopenia, which is obviously mitigated by exercising) however the type 2 muscle fibres (strength, "fast twitch") are usually worse affected by that than type1 muscle fibres (endurance, "slow twitch) and that's why you probably know a very elderly person who can walk to the shops and back happily but can't open a jam jar.
According to this theory it becomes increasingly important to include an element of strength training into activity as we age. So maybe we all need both stamina and strength training, but strength training increasingly with age? Dunno, it's a nice sounding theory anyhow

Its scientifically impossible for muscle to turn to fat . If you put a piece of steak in the fridge ( apart from it going off ) it will never turn into fat no matter how long you leave it. Muscles shrink due to lack of use and you put on fat if you eat in a calorie surplus also with lack of exercise. I used to be a competitive powerlifter and bodybuilder so I did learn a few things along the way  .

 

[royfellows]

I have actually developed an interesting workout of my own.

Haft an hour of crouching movement, a bit like Spiderman, a low roof maintains posture.
Following this, a ladder exercise, then some flat out contortions.
Then a long session of down on my knees with arm movements, followed by weight lifting.
For weights I improvise sandbags filled with a sort of clay attle and getting them up about 8 feet of ladder.
At it most Sundays.

 

[Paul Marvin]

I have actually developed an interesting workout of my own.

Haft an hour of crouching movement, a bit like Spiderman, a low roof maintains posture.
Following this, a ladder exercise, then some flat out contortions.
Then a long session of down on my knees with arm movements, followed by weight lifting.
For weights I improvise sandbags filled with a sort of clay attle and getting them up about 8 feet of ladder.
At it most Sundays.

Think that's what you call the old school digging and shoring routine Roy

 

[royfellows]

I call it Frongoch

 

[mikem]

You're right, it doesn't literally turn to fat, the excess food that is no longer needed for muscle when you stop exercising, is stored as fat instead - most people don't reduce their intake

 

[alanw]

I call it Frongoch

Not to be confused with LLAP-Goch

Only a FOUR-SECOND WORK-OUT Each Day!
DEVELOP UP TO 38" BICEPS
GROW UP TO 12" TALLER
LOSE UP TO 40" OF FAT IN YOUR FIRST WORK-OUT!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

WOW... that sounds even more deadly that Rex Kwon do!

https://youtu.be/UYZhwYdzEnE

 

[Roger W]

My old mate Sid signed up for one of these magic weight loss courses.  Said he was 50 pounds lighter before he even started the exercises...