Hey all, caver from the US here. I've often found that looking to other parts of the world for insights on gear and techniques pays off quite well. Being frustrated with kneepads seems to be a universal caver problem, but maybe you guys have a trick up your sleeves?

I notice the Warmbac thin neoprene kneepads are pretty popular with you guys. Are they thick enough to protect knees from long knobbly crawls? Do they stay in place? I like the slim profile, but they seem way different from what the best kneepads in the US are like. (long, wrap around the front of the leg, with multiple wide straps)

Any insights would be appreciated. The only way to get solid reliable kneepads over here is to spend a lot, and that doesn't sit well with me when I'm going through more than a pair a year.

I like carpet fitters kneepads bought from a local hardware store. Nice and squidgy to protect from rocks, I'm happy to put full body weight on them. Straps are rubbish underground so I cut 'em off and re string with bungee.

Mine are the fleshy sort that I was born with, they look a little worse for wear but have the advantage of growing back except with the worst of damage. I would recommend to others that this is not the best idea though, since my knees are in a terrible state after 15+ years of caving and I find it hard to walk in winter.

Bob Smith said:

Mine are the fleshy sort that I was born with, they look a little worse for wear but have the advantage of growing back except with the worst of damage. I would recommend to others that this is not the best idea though, since my knees are in a terrible state after 15+ years of caving and I find it hard to walk in winter.

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Ouch, yeah I think I'll pass on that. Whenever I've tried it it hasn't worked out well, and my knees are already not the greatest due to my teenage skateboarding years.

Burt, I do see those types at the hardware store and always wonder how they'll do.  Don't bungee cords dig into the backs of your knees badly?

I used to use the miners type with two straps round the back of the knee, very good protection but the straps cut in if there was a lot of walking. Hard to find now due to the loss of UK coal mining, so when the straps wore out I acquired Ditzys simple neoprene slip on ones. Not as good but adequate, only problem is in very muddy crawls they roll up and slide off the knee. Ditzy now has PVC coated neoprene ones with velcro straps, much easier to use and slightly more protection, but still prone to slippage in the mud. With care, most passage can be negotiated without extra padding but being tired causes extra bruising

For long(er) "knobbly" crawls I wear multiple sets of Warmbac neoprene knee pads and that works an absolute treat (sometimes up to three pairs simultaneously!).

NYCaver said:

Burt, I do see those types at the hardware store and always wonder how they'll do.  Don't bungee cords dig into the backs of your knees badly?

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Yes, a little, but I'd rather have that than a swagger like John Wayne from broken knees.

can i show you mine instead?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/nailers-k2-knee-pads/40171

You most certainly can and thanks. Those look like a lot of the hardware store type I've seen over here, and the price is right. I've always assumed they wouldn't be good at staying in place. Do you find that to be the case?

I have similar kneepads, but designed for caving and no rubber on the front, and I can either choose to cut off the circulation in my legs and not have them slip, or ease up on the straps and accept that i'll have to pull the kneepads back into place a couple times in every crawlway.

If you want a low-cost solution, I got an old towel folded to four thicknesses and hand-sewed it to the knees of my caving trousers (I haven't got round to getting a furry suit yet).
I put external pads on as well for properly crawly caves, but the towelling works well for crawls of moderate length/knobbliness, and is always in the right position
Of course, the downside is that they're also excellent at water retention....

Aways used the neoprene ones like these...



yes - they do have a tendency to slip down a bit in muddy crawls, but its easy to just pull em up.

Tried the miners ones...



but I find the straps really dig in, they have a tendency to snag on pointy rocks on the front edge and flip over, very annoying and also, when wading in deep water, they flip forwards and act as a huge flap/resistance brake making progress tiring.

I now have an undersuit that has pockets stitched on the knees, into which you can insert neoprene/foam/bubble wrap etc. its great and stays in place, and as an added bonus, seems to keep the neoprene ones worn on the outer (protects undersuit from wearing on the knee) in place too = double protection and less slippage.

I use the same type of kneepads as Cave_Troll. They are pretty good at staying in the right place, and are fantastic for sharp crawls or traversing when you are bracing off your knees. I used to use the neoprene ones, but they often seemed to end up on the shins, and not protecting the knees at all. They also blunt sharp pebbles in crawls, but the hard pads mean you don't feel them at all. The velcro adjustable neoprene kneepads were a bit better as you could make them tighter to stay in the right position, but if a trip is muddy the velcro soon clogs up and won't stick.

Anyway, at ~?10, a pair of builders kneepads are worth a punt. If you don't like them, its not the end of the world

Brendan said:

I used to use the neoprene ones, but they often seemed to end up on the shins, and not protecting the knees at all.

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You need thicker legs, Brendan!

I use trousers with built in kneepads, for instance,
http://www.bestinthecountry.co.uk/Blue_Castle_Knee_Pad_Action_Trousers_9200.aspx
Although they aren't the best if you're a really active caver. But for general bimbling around mines and suchlike they do me very well.

Hi fellow US-caver!
Dirty Daves http://www.karstsports.com/didaloknpa.html basically like the old bomber kneepads that everyone loved that are longsince not made anymore. You'll have invincible knees! And shins too since they are long.

Also popular are crawldaddies http://www.innermountainoutfitters.net/catalogentry.php?catalogentryid=780 but they are more expensive and I dont like that peeps I see with them wear them under their oversuits or whatnot...works well in TAG I guess if you're just in polypro pants tight to the leg and just wear it over that but I guess it's all in what you like.

I have the GGG kneepads and they are much better than anything I've owned to this point (not yet bit the bullet for the DD's) but they tend to slip down after walking for a bit so I feel like I'm always pulling them back up. I know folks who don't have this problem though, maybe it's in the shape of the leg and how the straps are. And I still bruise through them. I bruise really easily though.

Hi Amy, it's LukeM from CaveChat! I'm pretty familiar with what's available over here but it's always nice to get opinions on them. I've been using the Howitzers (formerly from Howie's, now from OnRope1) for a few years now and they're fantastic for the price ($25), but quickly lose their ability to stay put. I may have to check out the GGG pads, for just a little more money.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I definitely have a lot to consider now. The struggle continues!

*waves* hello! if you can't tell by my avatar being the same, I'm Sungura on cavechat

Before I got the ggg ones I was using ones from the hardware store basically like what cavetroll posted. They never held up in caves, were always slipping down on my legs, and in 2-3 cave trips were utterly destroyed so I learned it was worth paying more and having better ones that lasted and not have to basiclay buy new kneepads before every trip. The GGG have held up since the fall TAG cave in last year - so they did me well in the UK too! Although like I said, they tend to slip beacuse the elastic stretches out as I walk I think. So I do pull them back up a lot. You're probably better paying the extra $15 or so and getting the dirty daves.

I'm using the adjustable Warmbac neoprene at the moment, but find they have very little grip on wet rock compared to the Beaver ones I was using before. So just as an experiment, I tried wearing my knee and elbow bads under my (cordura) suit - result! Now they stay exactly where they're meant to be all the time, they fit comfortably without pinching, as there's no oversuit to wrap around, and the grip on rock is vastly improved.

So far, I haven't noticed any additional wear at the knees or elbows on the suit, but I will be getting a double-layered suit next just to be safe. They're so much more comfy, I can't help wondering whether they're meant to be worn like this. So until further notice, that's my preferred method.

I also wear soccer shinpads, which many of my co-cavers find hilarious. However, once you've really banged your shins, like I have, it's not funny at all, especially if you're a long way underground. A broken shinbone will not be fun. Also it means your entire lower leg can then be used for climbing/crawling, as you can't feel anything painful at all. I've dropped large rocks on my shins to prove the point, but I'm still the only one using them - even my nickname is 'shinpads' now, but I ain't giving them up...

i've worn my warmbac kneepads under my oversuit for years and haven't noticed any vast difference in knee wear on the suit, mine still wears through first on my bum area. I didn't get on with the adjustable warmbac kneepads as found with narrower straps they pinched slightly and tended to be more likely to move off the knee, where the good old fashioned pull on warmbac kneepads are great for me. With regards to shins, i wear long neoprene wetsocks for most caving for the same reason of protecting shin as it does seem to bruise far more easily and hurt more so am with you on the need to protect shins.