bograt
Active member
AALS? What dat??
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Adventurous Activities Licensing Service
- Thread starter bograt
- Start date
cap n chris
Well-known member
Adventurous Activities Licensing Service* - commercial providers of caving (to under 18s) are legally required to be licensed by AALS.
You can check/find providers here:
http://www.aals.org.uk/aals/provider_search.php
* Formerly known as the Adventure Activities Licensing Authority but as with most quangos it appears to be standard practice to move the goalposts and reorganise the bureaucracy over a seemingly random time-frame. If you're interested, presently the AALA/AALS is due for abolition but has been put on hold after the usual political fiasco which results whenever there's a hint of "rolling back red tape".
You can check/find providers here:
http://www.aals.org.uk/aals/provider_search.php
* Formerly known as the Adventure Activities Licensing Authority but as with most quangos it appears to be standard practice to move the goalposts and reorganise the bureaucracy over a seemingly random time-frame. If you're interested, presently the AALA/AALS is due for abolition but has been put on hold after the usual political fiasco which results whenever there's a hint of "rolling back red tape".
Pete K
Well-known member
Sorry, the Adventure Activities Licencing Scheme.
HSE stipulate that all activity providers taking unaccompanied under 18s for a licencable activity (cave/climb/canoe etc...) must have an AALS licence. Not all activities are included in the scheme.
This is not needed if a parent accompany each child. Teachers or scout/guide leaders do not count.
I don't have one coz they are about ?600.
HSE stipulate that all activity providers taking unaccompanied under 18s for a licencable activity (cave/climb/canoe etc...) must have an AALS licence. Not all activities are included in the scheme.
This is not needed if a parent accompany each child. Teachers or scout/guide leaders do not count.
I don't have one coz they are about ?600.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Gone up to ?720. Even though it's supposedly being abolished you still have to cough up and there's no pro-rata refund even if they scrap the licensing authority four weeks after you've re-bought a 3 year licence. Glad you haven't got one either Pete; the more AALS are starved of income, the more likely they are to become extinct, I reckon. Just let the centres with licences field the work and delegate it to freelancers, as the numbers dwindle the future will get brighter. It's a stealth tax.
Burt
New member
Cap'n Chris said:
There is a pro rata refund.
Abolition of the AALS has been on the cards for at least 18 months, and I suspect will drag on for another couple of years. Whether its replacement will be a good / bad thing, or even a workable thing, remains to be seen.
But at present, if you are caving with under 18s for financial or other reward, and the U18's parents / carers are not present, you need a licence.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Burt said:
Really? Not according to a document issued by the HSE which was forwarded to me today after a third party phone call to them. Would be overjoyed to hear more if you've got it.
r_walklate@hotmail.com
New member
I think Wales are keeping there AALS so if the English one was abolished then I think they could be an option. There are other things LOTC , gold standard, not yet the sane regard as AALS but options.
cap n chris
Well-known member
It's a funny world, innit. AALA/AALS' stipulations are that a prospective caving guide for under 18s should be "competent" and yet holding an NGB award such as LCMLA isn't a sufficient bona fide on its own, it has to be over-arched by a rather expensive piece of paper, namely a licence to trade.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Thank, Burt! - if Marcus confirms it to you tell him to advertise it PRONTO because the sole reason I ceased reapplying for a licence was the confirmation that there was no pro-rata refund on offer and hence due to the small quantity of AALA work I was doing it was a no-brainer business decision to step away from direct licensed operations. Therefore IF AALA/HSE do offer pro-rata refunds and they tell everyone about it they might find more companies applying for licences as there's no major financial loss if there is a subsequent abolition of the quango. Tell Marcus that you personally know of at least one ex-licensee who would still be paying IF someone had informed them! Financially AALA are the ones losing out.
On the topic of confusion and disarray (isn't the new terminology "omnishambles"?) the information I received which is contrary to your understanding was passed on to me as a result of another organisation's phone call yesterday with..... AALA.
On the topic of confusion and disarray (isn't the new terminology "omnishambles"?) the information I received which is contrary to your understanding was passed on to me as a result of another organisation's phone call yesterday with..... AALA.
I heard on "the grape vine" that England, Scotland, Ireland (and probably Wales) will end up with different regulations.
What happens then if an AALS holder wants to work "over the border" where the required regulations are different.
I was also under the impression that replacing AALA would reduce costs (which all have to be passed on to the clients). Has this actually happend or have the government simply relaced one quango with another?
What happens then if an AALS holder wants to work "over the border" where the required regulations are different.
I was also under the impression that replacing AALA would reduce costs (which all have to be passed on to the clients). Has this actually happend or have the government simply relaced one quango with another?
Gollum
Member
Can I just say they don't decide who is capable of taking groups underground, they check you have systems in place to ensure safety i.e. risk assessments.
I personally think it is better to check people are doing things safely and have systems in place before they are allowed to do it rather than like in other industries where they wait till it goes wrong and then act on it.
I personally think it is better to check people are doing things safely and have systems in place before they are allowed to do it rather than like in other industries where they wait till it goes wrong and then act on it.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Ralph said:
I suspect the location of the cave won't impinge on the relative bureaucracy affecting the location of the business. i.e. an English Outdoor Pursuits provider would be licensed in England but could visit a cave in Wales, and vice versa; the regulations would be relevant to the country of the business' location, not the location of the cave.
Gollum is correct: the licensing is all about having procedures in place - however, it's all well and good having a procedure such as "Check the weather forecast" but if the forecast is heavy rain and there's no Plan B then it still results in people being put into jeopardy. Checking the weather ain't much use unless you take notice of it and change your plans accordingly, is it?
Pitlamp
Well-known member
I agree with Gollum - of course there must be safe systems. What I can't understand is why an expensive and highly beaurocratic quango is needed to do this? What do they know that real cavers don't?
I have friends who have led instructed parties for years - decades in fact - perfectly competently and have had to stop because of the high cost of jumping through this outfit's hoops. In many cases I'd wager that these people are far more competent than anyone from this quango who was in a position of assessing them. There never seemed to be any real problems until the government interfered.
I have friends who have led instructed parties for years - decades in fact - perfectly competently and have had to stop because of the high cost of jumping through this outfit's hoops. In many cases I'd wager that these people are far more competent than anyone from this quango who was in a position of assessing them. There never seemed to be any real problems until the government interfered.
