Dear Cavers
I've had some worrying news from Michael (Slug) Hale of the CRO. He put the traverse rope into Kingsdale Master Cave in view of EuroSpeleo trips in the system. He has since been informed that the karabiners have been removed and the rope left in the sump. If this information is correct then all the routes that have been pre-rigged for EuroSpeleo could be at risk. Can anyone confirm the removal of the karabiners?
Ray Duffy

This is very disappointing. I understand the krabs had been recently donated to CRO. I only hope this is an isolated incident and not the start of some individual's campaign to steal as many krabs and maillons as possible over the next week.

Can we all please keep our eyes peeled for cavers leaving caves with a lot of metal and no rope?

Hopefully it's an isolated incident, and just some opportunist with no real affiliation with going underground.

However, if it's someone who should know better, it would be a shame if they got damaged while waiting for the police...

On Tuesday Slug informing Superbob and myself in the cafe that the Master Cave and Simpsons pot was rigged so we had a quick Wizz through.
Some 35 plus years ago we both saw the Master Cave so full of water it was lapping the pitch head and beyond were trapped cavers. These scum deserve no justice and throwing in said sump. Complete Twats. 

Unfortunately we can confirm that the krabs have definitely been removed. We had two teams in the cave today, the first team exited around 2pm and noticed the krabs in place. The second team (which I think met up with team that provided the initial report) exited at ~4pm and found the krabs removed and the rope in the streamway.
Peachey
ULSA

Assuming this isn't a misunderstanding, this is terrible news; and hopefully an isolated incident. I would hope that nobody with the skills/desire to descend a more complex cave would ever dream of doing this (and would understand the potential seriousness of their actions given that groups may be underground at the time) so hopefully this should not become more problematic.

Eurospeleo teams have been advised to rig caves using pre-owned maillions rather than Krabs. Aged maillions (with negligible value) will prove rather less worth the effort for any would-be opportunists than krabs. Tacklesacks will also be removed from the caves during the event. Therefore, there should be little of worthwhile value on offer during the congress.

I would urge all cavers to be extremely vigilant; and to take no offence if other well-meaning groups you meet ask you any questions particularly if you are carrying any rope/metalwork through or out of the caves during the week.

Matt Ewles

I was with an NPC team that came out c4pm and we meet up with the ULSA team in the main stream way.  We were literally a few seconds ahead reaching the stream way where we found the rope, still with the butterfly loops, trailing in the water.  I gathered it up and climbed up to the ledge to get it clear of the water.  It may still have been attached at some point ahead; I didn't pull too hard.
Further down, just after the wire in the ceiling, more rope was dangling.  One of the ULSA girls sorted this.

Near the pitch the krabs were still in place.  If you were to look at the traverse line from the top of the pitch it looked OK.  I think we probably disturbed the bastards before they could finish the job, or maybe they had so many krabs by then they could hardly move, or perhaps it was a cynical move to leave it looking ok?

Words fail me.............

I was down there yesterday (party of 2) about 2:00, the traverse rope furthest in was in the stream. We found 3 krabs loose in the master junction which we left clipped to the ancor on the traverse rope at the head of the pitch.

How much was the stolen gear worth??

I'm sickened at what's happened and would like to help replace the gear - could we cavers start a just giving page or crowd funding??  Being a Luddite I'd rather not initiate it myself, however if some kind soul did and I would donate to it and help promote it on here and via facebook.

Just a thought....Pegasus

Nick Bennett said:

I was down there yesterday (party of 2) about 2:00, the traverse rope furthest in was in the stream. We found 3 krabs loose in the master junction which we left clipped to the ancor on the traverse rope at the head of the pitch.

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This bunch of krabs were still there when we passed at c4pm..........

It's sad that some people feel the need to steal prerigged karbs. At least they can be replaced easily unlike the formations that where destroyed on mendip recently.

Good idea about fund raising - a pot on the bar at EuroSpeleo for spare change may also work?

I don't know if this is in any way related, but there was a recent theft of gear, including carabiners, from an outdoor centre between Keighly and Halifax a couple of months ago.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14535960.VIDEO__Climbing_kit_stolen_in_raid_on_Denholme_outdoor_centre/

Myself and six others did Simpsons yesterday and exited at about 2.30pm......all was in order at that time as two members of tha party used that high level route

Given Kingsdale was awash with Cavers on Sunday this was pretty mindless and brazen. And also being a luddite I agree that a collection bucket on the bar or in the caving booking tent at Eurospeleo might be a good idea. As cavers we look after our own, it was really heartwarming to see the bucket do  the rounds at the Leek Hidden Earth after a tent was vandalised.

CRO have asked me to post the following:

We can confirm that the middle section of the traverse rope is missing.  Lyon Equipment have very generously donated 85 karabiners to replace the ones stolen.  As the traverse line is usually rigged for putting up quickly for rescues we use krabs instead of mallions.  CRO will be considering whether to put the traverse line back up for the Eurospeleo event in the near future. It will of course be rigged in the case any need on a rescue.


Well done to Lyon Equipment 

I will certainly put some money in a pot at Eurospeleo to help replace the rope so hope to see one there.  If there's a wish for a crowd funding page, I'll work out how to do it if required.  I agree with blackshiver 'as cavers we look after our own'.

Pegasus

Well done Lyon!

Just to add a fuller picture to all this:
If everything was in place at 2:30, we must have disturbed the thiefs on our entry just about then.
As we were laddering the pitch into the main streamway, there was a light approaching along the traverse, he/they then turned and went back up the streamway, followed by a very loud crash (like a heavy tackle bag being thrown?).
As we went upstream, we noticed the second section of rope hanging just above head height, and higher up a rope in the water. I assumed it was in the process of being rigged.
At the master junction we met a bloke and I actually asked him if he'd been messing with the traverse rope (thinking I could ask him why he was rigging it), he was unable to answer, thinking he hadn't heard me I asked him again, he still couldn't answer. Then his mate arrived who was more talkative, said they'd just come down Swinsto (in which case who'd been on the traverse?).
This is exactly where we found the 3 krabs on our way back. Fortunately, we didn't catch them up otherwise I'd have returned the 3 krabs to them!!!
Could be a coincidence, if only I'd know earlier that Slug had previously rigged the traverse!
I spoke briefly to an ULSA girl as she reached the head of the pitch and we exited, there was no-one outside.
Seems a funny time of day (busy Sunday afternoon) to rob a cave, unless it was just in passing.

Has anyone been down Simpson/ Swinsto to see if the rigging is intact ?

maxf said:

Has anyone been down Simpson/ Swinsto to see if the rigging is intact ?

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As of 6pm (Simpsons) and 8pm (Swinstow) on the Sunday, both caves were still fully rigged on eurospeleo ropes. Arrived just as Ian.P was leaving, no sign of miscreants.

Joe

MJenkinson said:

Well done Lyon!

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Yes well done indeed. I too will put something into the 'bucket' at Eurospeleo