While all the negativity goes on over whether we should have a karma option, or a means to be selective and only read the stuff from people we 'like', how about some positive ideas on how to promote sensible and helpful posts, rather than how to ignore or stop the drivel?

I recently suggested, only half seriously, that we might have a post of the week. Although I can only partly see how it might work, I still keep coming back to it. The way I see it, is that every Friday, say, we post a link to the thread (or post) that impressed us the most in the past 7 days. The only problem is that we could all see what other people were voting for. So how about a new phantom user to whom we PM this information? Whoever 'owns' that user could then tot up the results, and give us the result each week, together with the nice comments that were sent. Could it work? I think so. Can you see any problems with it? Have you got any other constructive ideas, rather than a load more whinging about drivel?

Peter Burgess said:

Can you see any problems with it?

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Yes - I cannot see how any impetus someone might have to produce the posting of the week could adversely affect their motivation to post most drivel during the same week. The two are not incompatible.

Did I say it would actually stop the drivel? I don't think so. I am trying to encourage sensible posts. The more time people spend thinking about what they write, the less time they will spend being silly, which I suspect you don't like. The more people get into the mind-set of trying to be HELPFUL and POSITIVE, the less they are likely to CRITICISE and be NEGATIVE.

I like Bubba's suggestion of deleting the drivel posts from the serious threads, That way, all the informative threads stay that way, 'idle chat' is just that, and no-one will look at if they don't like that sort of thing. Bubba need never look at it, the rest of us can use the 'report to moderator' button if anyone is really offensive in there.

Only problem remains is the workload of removing non-informative posts from serious threads. Bubba and 3 mods can't be expected to check all the threads as frequently as they'd need to for this to work. Perhaps there needs to be a different person on each sub-forum whose job is to delete any post or part of a post which isn't contributing to the information content?

Peter Burgess said:

The more people get into the mind-set of trying to be HELPFUL and POSITIVE, the less they are likely to CRITICISE and be NEGATIVE.

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I haven't found criticism and negativity to be a big feature of ukc. Silliness and irrelevance, yes. Argumentativeness, too, but that's all part and parcel of trying to push the bounds of knowledge.

I don't enjoy competition (that's part of the attraction of caving). So competing for a 'post of the week' award wouldn't motivate me.

You don't have to think of it as a competition. The good feelings would come from telling everyone that you really appreciated so and so's comment, or you thought xyz's reply was really helpful, or such and such's witticism was really entertaining. In other words, the thread that really deserves praise would get much more noticed that just having a few compliments thrown into its dialogue. What I am suggesting is that those who want to give it a try would actually be spending a little time thinking positively about the forum, instead of (as some of you are doing this evening) moaning about its worse features. Of course, we should all add our praise to good postings within each dialogue as well.

I am just thinking on my feet at the moment. I still think it has merit, and for what it's worth, I could clear out my own inbox and offer to try it for a bit, if some of you people also think it worth a try. It would need more than a handful of people to join in, as 10 votes for 6 posts would hardly be worth it. Perhaps I am just too optimistic or idealistic about it.

kay said:

I like Bubba's suggestion of deleting the drivel posts from the serious threads, That way, all the informative threads stay that way, 'idle chat' is just that, and no-one will look at if they don't like that sort of thing. Bubba need never look at it, the rest of us can use the 'report to moderator' button if anyone is really offensive in there.

Only problem remains is the workload of removing non-informative posts from serious threads. Bubba and 3 mods can't be expected to check all the threads as frequently as they'd need to for this to work. Perhaps there needs to be a different person on each sub-forum whose job is to delete any post or part of a post which isn't contributing to the information content?

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From my own experience elsewhere, deleting posts is dead easy. The difficult and thoroughly unenjoyable bit is getting all the flak afterwards for just doing your job.

Peter Burgess said:

Did I say it would actually stop the drivel? I don't think so. I am trying to encourage sensible posts.

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You are absolutely right, and I apologise for implicitly misrepresenting what you said.

Personally, I really don't care if people drivel - in the appropriate places.

At the moment it is easy to ignore threads, but unfortunately it is less easy to ignore the entries in the threads that I do find of interest entered by those whose contributions seldom add value to a discussion. Unfortunately, it appears that the moderators would prefer not to allow users to have access to tools that can filter out such entries.

I reckon that I initially follow about a third of the threads, but it is very rarely that I will continue to follow a thread for more than a couple of pages. The extraneous noise ratio just becomes too high to make it worth while.

Being somewhat cynical, I suspect that your suggestions for improving the quality of posts whilst laudable, are a little naive. However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

kay said:

I like Bubba's suggestion of deleting the drivel posts from the serious threads, That way, all the informative threads stay that way, 'idle chat' is just that, and no-one will look at if they don't like that sort of thing. Bubba need never look at it, the rest of us can use the 'report to moderator' button if anyone is really offensive in there.

Only problem remains is the workload of removing non-informative posts from serious threads. Bubba and 3 mods can't be expected to check all the threads as frequently as they'd need to for this to work. Perhaps there needs to be a different person on each sub-forum whose job is to delete any post or part of a post which isn't contributing to the information content?

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I more or less agree with the sensible and practical comments from Kay above, except on one point.

The trouble is that 'drivel' or 'unsuitable'  is sometimes a matter of opinion.

Personally I would only ever remove truly offensive posts - and just move dubious stuff to the shit-heap - if at all.

I think that if many people started thinking that their posts might be deleted on someone else's whim they would simply not bother at all.

Personally I abhor censorship, and take offence when anyone decideds to tell me what I do or don't wish to read, or what opinions I should or shouldn't hold.

I want to see a board that has the truly expressed opinions, views and suggestions of all its users; good bad and indifferent, and not the reflection of the tastes of a small select group of administrators.

I think Peter's idea has some merit, in principle at least.
Practically I am less sure though, it is indeed extra work for someone.

It might work if there was a designated 'judge' for the week, the more senior members of the forum could take it in turns, easily administered by appending one's name to the bottom of a list...

But it all falls apart if someone is unavailable, busy, lost their connection, can't be arsed, etc etc.

Like many systems, the harder someone tries to manage it or change it to make it work better the usual end result is that they f**k it up and degrade the system.

My tuppence worth (and one that involves the least effort from the administrators) is to do nothing at all...
Remove only truly offensive posts notified to them via the existing channels.

Leave it to the readers to judge for themselves according to their own personal criteria what/who they think is sensible, silly, a wise man or a fool.

susie said:

...
At the moment it is easy to ignore threads, but unfortunately it is less easy to ignore the entries in the threads that I do find of interest entered by those whose contributions seldom add value to a discussion. Unfortunately, it appears that the moderators would prefer not to allow users to have access to tools that can filter out such entries.

I reckon that I initially follow about a third of the threads, but it is very rarely that I will continue to follow a thread for more than a couple of pages. The extraneous noise ratio just becomes too high to make it worth while.
...

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The above points are true, the noise can make threads hard to folow at times.
But not impossible.

Perhaps put a page limit on threads - anything sensible is likely to be, and usually is, said early on.
Sub-debates could be (would have to be) pulled out as a new topic.

One person's drivel is another's important communication. How is it to be defined and by whom? There's plenty of padding in all media. S'life, innit?

P.S. BTW Pendant failed to pick up on the speech-specific definition of the word drivel. (This isn't drivel, being neither stupid or careless).

susie said:

Being somewhat cynical, I suspect that your suggestions for improving the quality of posts whilst laudable, are a little naive. However, I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

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Well, if we just sit on our butts and decide there is no point in ever trying anything new because it is 'a little naive', then we will never know. I have spent more years than I care to remember (less a few years off) imploring people to write stuff for our newsletter. Naive? Possibly. But ever since we gave our members the means to write stuff directly into our website, I, and my predecessor, have been spoilt for choice for each and every issue we have produced. Find an easy way to allow people to do things they have never been inclined to do, and it works.

Dep said:

Perhaps put a page limit on threads - anything sensible is likely to be, and usually is, said early on.
Sub-debates could be (would have to be) pulled out as a new topic.

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Why would you need to limit others in that way when you can easily self-police that by simply not reading longer threads than your own, arbitrary, limit?

Would it be a constructive suggestion to posit that this thread isn't very constructive?

Perhaps too many of us are conditioned by how society has developed (at least in the UK) into having someone else think for us, and impose discipline on us which, if we are really honest with ourselves, we are quite capable of doing voluntarily. Set your own rules, read what you like, praise what you like, ignore or report what you don't like, enjoy banter with those that amuse you - basically, chill out!

graham said:

Dep said:

Perhaps put a page limit on threads - anything sensible is likely to be, and usually is, said early on.
Sub-debates could be (would have to be) pulled out as a new topic.

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Why would you need to limit others in that way when you can easily self-police that by simply not reading longer threads than your own, arbitrary, limit?

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Yes and no.
I put it forwards as another suggestion, but in reality what you suggest above is just what I would do too, read until I'd had enough, reached my limit or just got bored.

..or until the first mention that GB is the largest chamber in the UK.

Yes it is...

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No it isn't

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Repeat ad nauseum... 

Peter Burgess said:

Perhaps too many of us are conditioned by how society has developed (at least in the UK) into having someone else think for us, and impose discipline on us which, if we are really honest with ourselves, we are quite capable of doing voluntarily. Set your own rules, read what you like, praise what you like, ignore or report what you don't like, enjoy banter with those that amuse you - basically, chill out!

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Another candidate for post of the week.  :bow:

cap 'n chris said:

Would it be a constructive suggestion to posit that this thread isn't very constructive?

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I was going to wait for a few more offerings before making this very point. So I'll say it now - if you can't think of anything positive to add, then don't bother adding anything at all.

Dep said:

Peter Burgess said:

Perhaps too many of us are conditioned by how society has developed (at least in the UK) into having someone else think for us, and impose discipline on us which, if we are really honest with ourselves, we are quite capable of doing voluntarily. Set your own rules, read what you like, praise what you like, ignore or report what you don't like, enjoy banter with those that amuse you - basically, chill out!

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Another candidate for post of the week.  :bow:

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Oi, aren't you supposed to be finishing off a valuable new website feature????? What are you doing wasting your time here?

Peter Burgess said:

Dep said:

Peter Burgess said:

Perhaps too many of us are conditioned by how society has developed (at least in the UK) into having someone else think for us, and impose discipline on us which, if we are really honest with ourselves, we are quite capable of doing voluntarily. Set your own rules, read what you like, praise what you like, ignore or report what you don't like, enjoy banter with those that amuse you - basically, chill out!

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Another candidate for post of the week.  :bow:

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Oi, aren't you supposed to be finishing off a valuable new website feature????? What are you doing wasting your time here?

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Research and homework!  :tease: