Author Topic: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it  (Read 2640 times)

Offline timucin

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Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« on: June 22, 2020, 01:00:54 pm »
Two days ago, I bought Fenix HM65R. When I checked the battery level, one indicator light was on which shows that the battery level is %21-%40 according to Fenix operating instructions page https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/fenix-hm65-rechargeable-headlamp/. After trying different combination of lighting for a while the battery level dropped below %20, one indicator was flashing which means it’s almost empty.

So, I plugged in my original Samsung phone charger https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-accessories/phones/adaptive-fast-charging-wall-charger-detachable-microusb-usb-cable-white-ep-ta20jweusta/#specs . Immediately three lights were on constantly and the fourth indicator was flashing as in this video:

This situation didn’t change for 4 hours from the very first second of plugging in the charger till it got fully charged. After 4 hours four indicators were on constantly which means that charging had been completed.

It took 4 hours to fully charge even it’s said it takes two hours in its user manual and on its official web page. But what’s more interesting is that it started to get charged with three indicators on and one flashes constantly till it get fully charged. Why it didn’t act as it’s said on its official web page “In charging process, one indicator flashes: below 20%, one constant-on and one flashes: 21%-50%, two constant-on and one flashes: 51%-80%, three constant-on and one flashes: 81% – 95%, four constant-on: charging complete.”?

Is there anything wrong with my headlamp?

Another issue is that Is Fenix lying about run time of this headlamp hm65r? I thought so after reading BrightLight and 71k5’ threads http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68966 and amazon.com reviews like:
“ 1,400 lumens for 2 hours, false and not true – reduces to lower lumen after 15 mins
Reviewed in the United States on November 1, 2019
Verified Purchase
Just got this in the mail 2 days ago. I was testing the 1,400-lumen stage on both of the lamps to see if it would last 2 hours as the website described. Didn’t last 15 mins before the housing got too hot. I think there’s a fail switch that if it gets too hot than it has to drop to the lower lumen setting. I’m not sure if this is like for all high lumen head light or if it’s because the battery is right next to the housing causing it to be too hot. Either way, be aware of the 2-hour setting at 1,400 – not true. Also did it with full battery and same thing. I’m really disappointed, also Fenix said they made this particular brand in China. Not impressed! Item was returned due to false advertising. I tried looking at the manual that came with it, nothing in there says that the mechanism in the housing would reset after 15 mins if it gets too hot. I understand it gets hot in there but if you’re going to mention that you can hold 1,400 lumens at 2 hours than you need to make sure you can do that with the correct housing to handle the heat. False adv.”.

If so, I’ll return it.

UK Caving

Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« on: June 22, 2020, 01:00:54 pm »
Warmbac

Online Fjell

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 02:33:21 pm »
A single 18650 battery driving 1400lm would be lucky to last half an hour. And I imagine it will trip down on heat or low voltage pretty soon in a small headset.

My lamp uses four 18650’s and can’t run for too long at 1400lm without running it under a tap or something. And it has a significantly bigger heatsink. It’s meant for lighting up chambers and photography, not normal caving. Luxury is running at half that - even for crusties like us.

You can’t charge it in two hours with a 2A bulk current charger. The thing will limit at 4.2V (or you would sincerely hope so), so it will take 3-4 hours depending on the cut-off current. Nor would I want to charge it any faster.

None of this is device specific. It sounds to me it is working fine, but not to your expectations. It is a decent bit of kit for the price. You can spend an awful lot more.

Offline timucin

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 03:17:47 pm »
A single 18650 battery driving 1400lm would be lucky to last half an hour. And I imagine it will trip down on heat or low voltage pretty soon in a small headset.

My lamp uses four 18650’s and can’t run for too long at 1400lm without running it under a tap or something. And it has a significantly bigger heatsink. It’s meant for lighting up chambers and photography, not normal caving. Luxury is running at half that - even for crusties like us.

You can’t charge it in two hours with a 2A bulk current charger. The thing will limit at 4.2V (or you would sincerely hope so), so it will take 3-4 hours depending on the cut-off current. Nor would I want to charge it any faster.

None of this is device specific. It sounds to me it is working fine, but not to your expectations. It is a decent bit of kit for the price. You can spend an awful lot more.

You mean it's acceptable not to run as it's claimed by Fenix.

Well, have any other question. If you answer I'd be happy. I have this fenix headlamp which contains 18650 Fenix ARB-L18-3500 and Ledlenser LM4 which contains LEDLENSER 14500 750 mah Li-ion batteries. What's the best charger for them. I have these chargers and a few others. https://imgur.com/qxYE3AS . Lastly I'll buy this charger https://eu.nkon.nl/opus-bt-c3100-v2-2-intelligent-battery-charger-analyzer.html to charge these batteries and Panasonic eneloop 1900 mah Ni-MH https://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/en/eneloop/eneloop-aa-1900-mah-new-eneloop-storage-case-4-pieces What's the most suitable settings for each kind of these batteries while charging with Opus? Hope I'm clear enough. Sorry for insufficient English.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 03:23:31 pm »
The graph on Fenix's website would do well in the FT's "Axes of Evil" series - neither scale really makes any sense at all. I don't know how they managed to get the 10LM[sic] tick mark on the inside of the y-axis and all the others on the outside; was the graph made in MS Paint?

Offline timucin

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2020, 04:13:22 pm »
The graph on Fenix's website would do well in the FT's "Axes of Evil" series - neither scale really makes any sense at all. I don't know how they managed to get the 10LM[sic] tick mark on the inside of the y-axis and all the others on the outside; was the graph made in MS Paint?

I understand from the chart on Fenix web site hm65R-runtime-600x180.png that it runs 4 hours without falling to the below level in 1000 lumens. But users says apposite this.

Offline MarkS

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2020, 04:24:14 pm »

I understand from the chart on Fenix web site hm65R-runtime-600x180.png that it runs 4 hours without falling to the below level in 1000 lumens. But users says apposite this.

The chart suggests it will almost immediately drop below 1000 lm and run for 4 hours between 200 & 500 lm...

Online Fjell

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 04:55:42 pm »

[/quote]

You mean it's acceptable not to run as it's claimed by Fenix.

Well, have any other question. If you answer I'd be happy. I have this fenix headlamp which contains 18650 Fenix ARB-L18-3500 and Ledlenser LM4 which contains LEDLENSER 14500 750 mah Li-ion batteries. What's the best charger for them. I have these chargers and a few others. https://imgur.com/qxYE3AS . Lastly I'll buy this charger https://eu.nkon.nl/opus-bt-c3100-v2-2-intelligent-battery-charger-analyzer.html to charge these batteries and Panasonic eneloop 1900 mah Ni-MH https://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/en/eneloop/eneloop-aa-1900-mah-new-eneloop-storage-case-4-pieces What's the most suitable settings for each kind of these batteries while charging with Opus? Hope I'm clear enough. Sorry for insufficient English.
[/quote]Well, have any other question. If you answer I'd be happy. I have this fenix headlamp which contains 18650 Fenix ARB-L18-3500 and Ledlenser LM4 which contains LEDLENSER 14500 750 mah Li-ion batteries. What's the best charger for them. I have these chargers and a few others. https://imgur.com/qxYE3AS . Lastly I'll buy this charger https://eu.nkon.nl/opus-bt-c3100-v2-2-intelligent-battery-charger-analyzer.html to charge these batteries and Panasonic eneloop 1900 mah Ni-MH https://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/en/eneloop/eneloop-aa-1900-mah-new-eneloop-storage-case-4-pieces What's the most suitable settings for each kind of these batteries while charging with Opus? Hope I'm clear enough. Sorry for insufficient English.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t spend money on chargers if you already have one that works OK.

Eneloop are regarded as the best by many people, but maybe that’s historical because they had the tech for reducing self discharge I believe. They also made them for Ikea at one point.

There is Eneloop standard (very long service life) and Eneloop Pro (high capacity, shorter service life). I have had some Pros for nearly a decade with no obvious degradation. Maybe that just means not enough trips.

Offline royfellows

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2020, 05:25:12 pm »
A single 18650 battery driving 1400lm would be lucky to last half an hour. And I imagine it will trip down on heat or low voltage pretty soon in a small headset.

My lamp uses four 18650’s and can’t run for too long at 1400lm without running it under a tap or something. And it has a significantly bigger heatsink. It’s meant for lighting up chambers and photography, not normal caving. Luxury is running at half that - even for crusties like us.

You can’t charge it in two hours with a 2A bulk current charger. The thing will limit at 4.2V (or you would sincerely hope so), so it will take 3-4 hours depending on the cut-off current. Nor would I want to charge it any faster.

None of this is device specific. It sounds to me it is working fine, but not to your expectations. It is a decent bit of kit for the price. You can spend an awful lot more.

Am quoting in full as I agree every single point.

Lithium Ion batteries charge on a constant voltage. As charging progresses the internal resistance will increase so as to cause the charging current to decrease. Different chargers will have different charge rates, if in doubt best to check the battery manufacturers data sheet, but 3500 mAh cells are generally re wraps of the Samsung NCR 18650 GA which has a recommended charge rate of 0.5C where C is the capacity. So really 2 amps would not explode it but could be detrimental to the life of the battery. As most recharging is overnight, I dont see 1 amp as being an issue, and the highest charge rate will be the initial phase anyway with the charge reducing to a few mA as charging nears completion.

The lamp in question obviously uses some kind of boost circuit, but run times will obviously be relative to the capacity of the battery, you cant get something for nothing.

Quoted run times are generally for guidance. I quote run times on full power for guidance on my high powered lamps, although they would not sustain the heat if used in this way, it is still a useful guide. This is general practice in all lamp manufacturers that i am aware of.



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Offline Roger W

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2020, 05:46:28 pm »
Hmm - can you believe what manufacturers claim for their products?

There's another chart for the HM65R on the MyFenix UK website - the spec there quotes 4 hours on the turbo 1000 lumens spot setting, but the graph there (another one with very curious non-linear scales to the axes!) suggests that the 1000 lumens will drop to 400 or so in a very few minutes as the lamp presumably goes over to the "high" setting, where it will last for about 4 hours, dropping gradually off to 150 lumens or so before suddenly crashing out at the end of the 4 hours.

Those super-high settings on a lamp like this are only intended for a quick flash to light up the halls of Khazad-Dum

https://www.myfenix.co.uk/fenix-hm65r-rechargeable-headlamp
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline royfellows

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 06:17:25 pm »
- the spec there quotes 4 hours on the turbo 1000 lumens spot setting,

That is impossible from a single cell under current state of technology. As I said, a boost circuit will boost the voltage thus enabling higher currents, however the battery still has only the same capacity, and the LED still requires the same current to drive it at a given output. So if an LED requires (for example) a current of 3 amps to drive at at an output of 1000 lumens  (XPL is actually about 1125L at 3A) and one uses a 3500 mAh cell, then......... answers on a postcard.
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Offline Roger W

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2020, 07:03:05 pm »
Exactly!

You might get 4 hours of light on the "1000 lumen setting" - but it won't be 4 hours at 1000 lumens!

Hence my initial question...
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline royfellows

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2020, 08:24:34 pm »
Hmm - can you believe what manufacturers claim for their products?


I try to be as honest as possible because I produce lamps as an interesting activity in its own right. Cannot speak for others though, and would rather not try anyway!
I can safely say though that some of the torches on offer are making claims that go into the ridiculous. But manufacturers such as Fenix, Nightcore, Imolent, and most of the specialised caplamps are pretty fair. There is a lot to be said for independent reviews, but beware of shills.
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Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2021, 04:45:28 pm »
Resurrecting an old thread.  I'm looking at either this (HM65R) or an HL60R as a replacement light.  I too was somewhat perplexed at the Fenix numbers.  A bit of rummaging found this from Fenix on the Candlepower Forums site:

"Runtimes are measured by the ANSI standard and are accumulated runtimes.
The ANSI standard of measurement is defined by the time that it takes light to dim down from the listed output to 10% of that output. So in testing, the light is turned on to the 400 lumen output and slowly over time the battery will drain and the light will slowly dim until it reaches 40 lumens at 22 hours.
The reason that we see something different in "actual" runtime is because Fenix lights have digital brightness regulation. This regulation prevents the light from dimming and instead just reverts to the next brightest output that the battery can comfortably handle.
The point at which you see the light drop to the Medium setting would be the point at which the light would begin to dim in a flashlight without the digital brightness regulation."

So my supplementary question is does running both wide and spot modes simultaneously on the HM65R give a good even light without a pronounced central hotspot for a decent amount of time (so I can use it for photos and videos)?  It would seem that running both LEDs would further diminish the power quite quickly.  From the graph above the 1000 turbo setting really equates to 4 hours at 400 lumens in reality after an initial bit of retina melting, so would that drop to 2 hours with both LEDs on (secondary LED claims a 400 lumen output)?  Does that work out in real life use?

And the associated question is what does the beam of the HL60R look like in terms of a hot spot?  From what I've seen on YouTube there seems to be one, but hard to see how pronounced it is in actual use. 


Online tim.rose2

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2021, 10:57:34 pm »
Can't comment on the technical stuff but I did buy one of these myself a couple of weeks ago and here's my thoughts...

The run times / outputs given by Fenix are clearly bo**ocks and based on some sort of factory testing in the same way the spec on your car tells you it's significantly more fuel efficient that anything seen in reality.  And as others have pointed out the Fenix data graph is basically meaningless as the scales on both axis are nonsense.

However, putting the above aside, this is a really powerful, well built headlight which in my opinion is an absolute bargain compared to the alternatives. 

In terms of run time I've put it through it's paces on a couple of trips in the Dales and found the combination of Medium floodlight (quoted 130 lm) and low spotlight (quoted 50 lm) to be a nice setting to cave on.  Using this setting predominantly but frequently going between high & turbo on both LEDs to take photos and have a look around resulted in me draining the battery in about 5 hours.  This also included some 'accidentally leaving it on the higher setting to see what happens'.  When I say 'drained after 5 hours' I was not plunged into darkness, rather the lamp would only function on the lowest settings which were usable but felt dim.  I need to test it in one of the poxy little caves on Portland I usually play in where the brightest settings aren't needed to see how quickly the battery drains not using the higher levels.  I'm guessing somebody who understands electronics could tell me?  Is there a fag packet calculation which related 'lumen hours' to Amp hours?   I'll certainly be carrying a spare battery for trips which are likely to be > 4 hours particularly if there's things to look at or I've got the camera with me.  Despite having to carry the extra battery it's still a big improvement both in terms of brightness and weight compared to the 4 x AAs and Custom Duo I had been using so overall very pleased.








Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Fenix HM65R It seems something wrong with it
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2021, 01:15:46 pm »
Shiny new HM65R arrived this morning.  Comes with a 3500mAh 18650 battery which is nice.  Surprisingly light weight too.  I guess I ought to do some more caving then, presuming that the world stops ending on 19th July, as it's a long way to Somerset and back at present.

 

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