estelle said:

John S said:

A quick look at photos of UFS, will show that some have had tape removed. This means that when its re-laid it can extend the damage zone. ( Its almost as bad as seeing photographic models on the wrong side of the tape.) And this damage is done with leaders present I assume.

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I have no idea in the photos you saw, but my assumption is that a fair amount of tape is 'removed' from cave photos in post processing of the photos as it is not deemed correct to have tape in cave photos - or at least that was what was being said at Hidden Earth ref the photo competitions. Whether it was physically removed for the photos in question i don't know.

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This has been dragged from another thread.

Yes, tape can be removed by post processing and it may have been done, or the model was so far over the tape that it was not visible. It just seemed wrong to me. I would have liked to see something to keep the tape fixed to avoid its movement, accidental or otherwise.

But is it right for photographers to remove tape to take a photo ? As it never goes back the same.

In Daren Cilau, there was a window put in the tape for photographers, but this has been moved and then removed to put is somewhere else around the formation. Yet more damage.
Remember most scientific data is in the mud not the stal, and that is much easier to destroy.


[gmod]I moved this to the 'Conservation' area as I thought that was a more suitable location. Thanks for starting a new thread. [/gmod]

Should BCA change its rules for its photographic competitions.

If tape has been removed via photoshop etc, then this should be proved to the judges or face the photo being barred. Between us we know where most of the tape is. It would be a risk too much for the photographer to have his photos barred if he/she then moved tape.

We can?t have people profiting from poor conservation morals.
Or the judges need to learn not to mark down photos where tape has been left.

I understand what you are saying, but, in some locations in the Peak the conservation tape is a thin orange plastic tape held off the ground by stainless steel pegs (a bit like a skewer around 10cm to 15cm long with one end bent in a loop to hold the tape). It is possible to temporarily remove short sections of this taping and then replace replace it afterwards while taking photos, where the tape would appear in the photo.

Of course while the taping has been temporarily removed, there is no excuse for anyone to then step on the area which was being protected. Everyone should still behave as if the section of tape was still there until it has been replaced immediately after the photos have been taken.

While in principle I agree with John, Paul is right to point out that newer taping techniques, using steel risers in discrete holes does enable tape to be temporarily moved and put back in the same place without too much of a problem.

However, Paul's last point about acting as if the tape is still in place cannot be stressed enough. The stuff is there for a reason & taking a photo is not a sufficient excuse for ignoring it.

Personally I have absolutely no problem with the tape being in photos. It reminds people of the vulnerable areas and shows the work that has been carried out to protect those areas. Leave them in the shot and don't disturb them. afaiac. 

It can take quite a bit of work to place the tape appropriately, another reason to leave them alone and not touch. If you want to get closer to a feature of interest, use the zoom feature on your camera. Most have them these days...

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.

Personally I think that tape should never be moved for the sake of a photograph.  Removal of the tape can lead to mud being spread by the tape.  Lack of tape, even temporarily, can lea to photographers, models and assistants straying into protected areas, especially if they are concentrating on their job.  In this day and age if the photographer really is that bothered it is easy enough to remove the tape during post processing.

I am with Mel on this one, I think that photographers should be encouraged to leave tapes in their photos.  In many cases tape only detracts from the photo because it is tatty and poorly placed, if the taping is done neatly and well it should not be overly obvious in a photograph or detract from it.

There's huge scope for good cave photography in places that have no tape anyway. Caves aren't just about pretty things.

John S said:

Should BCA change its rules for its photographic competitions.

If tape has been removed via photoshop etc, then this should be proved to the judges or face the photo being barred. Between us we know where most of the tape is. It would be a risk too much for the photographer to have his photos barred if he/she then moved tape.

We can?t have people profiting from poor conservation morals.
Or the judges need to learn not to mark down photos where tape has been left.

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BCA does not run photographic competitions. i think you may mean BCRA...

Peter Burgess said:

There's huge scope for good cave photography in places that have no tape anyway. Caves aren't just about pretty things.

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agreed, although care stilll needs to be taken, lack of tape doesn't always mean you should get close. Bemused why anyone would edit out tape, prefer to see a cave pictured as it is

See this thread and previous pages for more info and photos:-

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16892.50

Some very good contributions on there...