UK Caving

WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => The Dales => Topic started by: thehungrytroglobite on January 11, 2022, 11:10:18 pm

Title: shuttleworth newt
Post by: thehungrytroglobite on January 11, 2022, 11:10:18 pm
Does anyone know if the Shuttleworth Newt has been dated? If so, what was the conclusion? I haven't been able to find any detail on this.

Thank you!
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: mikem on January 12, 2022, 09:32:43 am
It certainly wouldn't be there if subjected to any flooding, so probably not ancient. Have you tried this publication:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-remarkably-well-preserved-skeleton-of-a-newt-Triturus-sp-which-would-be-about-50_fig10_281535728

We have newts living in a cave on Mendip.
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: Pitlamp on January 12, 2022, 11:47:24 am
Does anyone know if the Shuttleworth Newt has been dated? If so, what was the conclusion? I haven't been able to find any detail on this.

Thank you!

The title of this topic should really be "Witches Cave II Newt". Shuttleworth Pot is the dig which broke into the top of avens climbed originally from Witches Cave II. (It's a common thing people say, understandably, because of the newer dry access route.)
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: andrewmc on January 12, 2022, 12:51:50 pm
Am I right in thinking that the newt is inaccessible as the passage is taped off? (or did I just miss it when I last went down Shuttleworth with the survey).

I have a laminated copy of the Shuttleworth survey and all the SSSI monitoring photos (see the CNCC page for Shuttleworth), which makes a fun trip (try to find all the features of interest) :)
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: Benfool on January 12, 2022, 12:58:43 pm
Its in My Newt passage, which is down a small hole on the left hand side of the main passage. Its very easy to climb down the hole, getting out is more interesting

It is indeed across some conservation tape, so obviously I've never been down to see it in case the cave police caught me.

B
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: andrewmc on January 12, 2022, 02:11:29 pm
I'm happier knowing that the skeleton is behind some tape and protected (and I hope everyone respects that) than it ends up like the dog skeleton, which apparently used to be reasonably intact but was probably already a messy pile of bones by the time I started caving.

It would be easy to say I knew better than other people and wouldn't cause any damage, but I'm not better than other people (and people who think they are are generally wrong)...
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: A_Northerner on January 12, 2022, 02:20:41 pm
Someone Who Isn't Me once went down to have a look, My Newt passage is indeed beyond conservation tape, but once you drop into the chamber you are apparently encircled in a 1m ring of tape, telling you loud and clear not to move from that spot. The tape circle is surrounded by pristine cracked mud formations and a second tiny circle of tape surrounds the newt itself. It couldn't be more clear, even if you accidentally strayed beyond the tape in order to reach My Newt passage, that the newt shouldn't be interfered with.
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: caving_fox on January 14, 2022, 12:46:25 pm
Someone Who Isn't Me once went down to have a look, My Newt passage is indeed beyond conservation tape, but once you drop into the chamber you are apparently encircled in a 1m ring of tape, telling you loud and clear not to move from that spot. The tape circle is surrounded by pristine cracked mud formations and a second tiny circle of tape surrounds the newt itself. It couldn't be more clear, even if you accidentally strayed beyond the tape in order to reach My Newt passage, that the newt shouldn't be interfered with.

And if were to find yourself there I'd recommend leaving someone on the surface just in case combined tactics are required to extract you from somewhere you shouldn't be. Certainly not personal experience.
Title: Re: shuttleworth newt
Post by: andrewmc on January 15, 2022, 12:20:48 pm
I'm actually a little shocked and surprised that people are crossing tape; I should have thought that was a universal no-no...

And the only thing I can think of worse than tape that people cross is tape that people do cross when they are 'in the know'... basically bringing access back to funny handshakes and who-you-know.

If it's OK to visit the passage, then there shouldn't be tape. If it isn't, then no-one should be crossing it.
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