• CSCC Newsletter - May 2024

    Available now. Includes details of upcoming CSCC Annual General Meeting 10th May 2024

    Click here for more info

Opportunities for some positive PR?

A

Andy Sparrow

Active member
All being well we should see the Three Counties System become a reality in the not too distant future (yes, I know we said the same about Aggie/Daren 20 years ago but let's think positively and be prepared).  It strikes me as a great opportunity for some positive publicity and maybe now, in advance of the event, we should be thinking about this.  Titan caught the public imagination very effectively when it finally filtered out years after its discovery.  Maybe this time we should be prepared and present the achievement on our own terms.  It would be nice to think we could have the press-releases ready and, just for once, take the initiative where the media are concerned.

What does anybody else think?
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
H'm - just keep at the back of your mind that certain parts of the 3 Counties system are on land where the farmers and or landowners have directly expressed concern that caving activities should be kept "low profile". If we try to make a big thing of this outside caving circles it could be that our access is compromised, not to mention that some of these folk have trusted us and we mustn't do anything to let them down.

Just as an example, a certain site featured on television recently - the first the farmer knew about it was when he switched his TV on. He felt he'd been conned (although I suspect that only an accidental breakdown in communication had in fact occurred.) However, this farmer also has another cave on his land which is a crucial part of the 3CS and we almost lost access permanently because he felt that cavers in general had betrayed his trust. I suspect that not many cavers even know about this unfortunate situation - and I'm not going to tell you which site is involved because I think we have managed to sort it out (after a great deal of effort) - and I don't want to raise it's profile anyway.

Just be aware that cavers are often considered as a pain in the neck by farmers; mostly they are kind enough to tolerate us but it'd not take much to stop our activities altogether. We have a huge amount to be grateful for and access should never be taken for granted.

Your suggestion was obviously well meant Andy but we need to consider any potentially negative implications.
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
i loved my trip down titan last sunday! and i can see why its a bit of a different situation to the 3CS, its massive! 
 
A

Andy Sparrow

Active member
Pitlamp said:
H'm - just keep at the back of your mind that certain parts of the 3 Counties system are on land where the farmers and or landowners have directly expressed concern that caving activities should be kept "low profile". If we try to make a big thing of this outside caving circles it could be that our access is compromised, not to mention that some of these folk have trusted us and we mustn't do anything to let them down.
Click to expand...

A system as large as the 3 Counties expands under the land of many different owners who no doubt have a range of views about caves and cavers.  I am not sure that the possibly negative views of a few of these should compel us to keep the greatest achievement in British Caving to ourselves.  Why not confer with the landowners over the content of press-releases in advance - get them involved before the event?

There is another point which can't be ignored.  The media will latch on to the 3 Counties thing when it happens and give it their own spin.  Better in my opinion for British caving to be in the driving seat from the start - leading events and not reacting to them.

And besides, will a one minutes mention of News at Ten result in hordes of aspirant cavers invading the Dales, knocking down the walls and scaring the sheep?  I think not.

Anyway, now is the time to consider these issues, and to prepare for the event when it happens.
 
D

dunc

New member
A system as large as the 3 Counties expands under the land of many different owners who no doubt have a range of views about caves and cavers
Click to expand...
If my understanding of land ownership in the area is correct it's not that many (maybe 7? I wait to be corrected!), and of those just two landowners cover a respectable portion of the system or, most importantly, entrances.

Whilst I think it would be good publicity for caving I'll have to agree with Pitlamp that it might not be quite as good for caver-landowner relations (unless of course all landowners are consulted and are happy for such news to be broadcast, which I doubt)
 
graham

graham

New member
Of course, the views of the landowners in such matters are important. If they wish to keep it low profile, then that is what cavers should do.

Simples
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
Not sure why "PR" for caving is a "good thing"...

I don't really care what Joe Public thinks about caving. Im not seeking their approval...
 
D

dunc

New member
Not sure why "PR" for caving is a "good thing"...

I don't really care what Joe Public thinks about caving. Im not seeking their approval...
Click to expand...
Nor me but it might get rid of the blinkered view that a fair portion of Joe Public hold about caving / paints caving in a good light.

Not sure why "PR" for caving is a "bad thing"... Obvious landowner issues aside
 
Badlad

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
IF and WHEN the 3 counties becomes a reality it will be up to the likes of the Misty Mountain Mud Miners to make whatever PR they may wish of it, be it low key or blazed all over the News of the World.  Those involved are very unlikely to take any notice of Mendip cavers or most of those who post on UK caving.  You're a cheeky git to raise this topic when it hasn't anything to do with you - you've not even had the decency to post on the Yorkshire/dales section.

However, I would agree that local good news stories do help change the attitudes of local farmers and landowners.
 
Mark

Mark

Well-known member
Farmers/landowners what's in it for them anyway, treat them well, respect their wishes, keep it simple.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
The number of landowners is relatively few but there are rather more tenant farmers. Often it's the tenants we deal with on a day to day basis. We upset them at our peril.

Badlad: I have every respect for the MMMM but I think it's important to remember that when the 3CS is finally created it will be the product of the work of many generations of cavers, not just one group (albeit they are very active in working towards this achievement).

It'll certainly be something to celebrate - all I was trying to do when I posted above was to raise awareness that a big media splurge could work against us if not well managed. Perhaps Andy Sparrow has done a very good thing in raising the idea of being ready for it.
 
Badlad

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
As can be seen from the Rift-Ireby posts on this site the MMMM gave immediate acknowledgement to the work of other groups and previous generations.  I don't see why they should be any different with the other connection if it happens.

I expect that those involved with these (final?) pieces of the jigsaw have already given thought to the concerns voiced above, and long before they appeared in this posting.  It will be up to them as to how loud they want to shout about it and I don't think they will appreciate being told what to do by people who have had nothing to do with it,  and that is most, but not all, of those posting above.

My sources tell me that although there has been an advance recently, which has set the rumour mill running, this has been due to a readjustment of the survey rather than any advance at the coal face.  Underground, the work continues on a regular basis but the diggers are not expecting a breakthrough in the near future.
 
graham

graham

New member
Badlad said:
... but the diggers are not expecting a breakthrough in the near future.
Click to expand...

Weird! On Mendip every digger just knows that a breakthrough is imminent.

But then our caves are deeper than those in Yorkshire. ;)
 
D

dunc

New member
graham said:
Badlad said:
... but the diggers are not expecting a breakthrough in the near future.
Click to expand...

Weird! On Mendip every digger just knows that a breakthrough is imminent.

But then our caves are deeper than those in Yorkshire. ;)
Click to expand...
Quality not quantity is what matters ;)



And the powers that be may aswell close this forum down, as god forbid anyone should ever discuss anything that might be of interest or anything they have nothing to do with.  :confused:
.
 
Roger W

Roger W

Well-known member
Badlad said:
My sources tell me that although there has been an advance recently, which has set the rumour mill running, this has been due to a readjustment of the survey rather than any advance at the coal face. 
Click to expand...

I gathered that some interesting advances had been made, but I didn't realise you had tunneled right out of the limestone and into the Coal Measures.

:bow:  :bow:  :bow:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top