UK Caving

OTHER STUFF => Idle Chat => Topic started by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 04:47:23 pm

Title: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 04:47:23 pm
This cropped up on a night shift my wife was on last night in ITU with the doctors and nurses . Out of the 12 Beds for CV19 patients in ITU 11 of the people were "anti vaccies" as they have now become known as, that is to say say are refusing to have any CV19 vaccine, so should they take up a bed what could be used for somebody that has been vaccinated ?   :-\ . Yes there are people that have had both vaccines that go into ITU with CV19.

I think I know which way this vote will go  ;)

*** Please remember guys that everybody is entitled to an opinion, even if it doesn't happen to be your opinion so be respectful . 
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Brains on September 20, 2021, 05:00:29 pm
Are you adding a poll?
I would opine that refusing the offering of medical science should be a blanket option. Respect their stance to refuse treatment and isolate to prevent spreading the contagion
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 05:02:24 pm
Are you adding a poll?
I would opine that refusing the offering of medical science should be a blanket option. Respect their stance to refuse treatment and isolate to prevent spreading the contagion

Yes I will .   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: pwhole on September 20, 2021, 05:02:29 pm
Having recently needed an emergency bed for a genuine emergency, you already know my feelings on this. No Covid jab, no Covid treatment - if the choice to be vaccinated was turned down, and it takes away treatment for a jabbed Covid patient or any other patient with any other illness requiring arranged treatment, or life-threatening emergencies. In other words, go home and deal with it, we're too busy, sorry. Sucker. Obviously folks who couldn't get jabbed for health reasons are exempt from this new law.

You can tell your wife to tell the doctors and nurses that, if they feel they need support in a difficult decision :)
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Fishes on September 20, 2021, 05:05:46 pm
I wouldn't refuse them a bed if there are plenty to go around. I would give the bed to a vaccinated person first however.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 05:07:21 pm
Poll up now guys so cast your votes  :clap2:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: NewStuff on September 20, 2021, 05:16:47 pm
If you don't trust Science/Nurses/Doctors/"Big Pharma" enough to get the jab, then you do not get to say that you do trust them enough to pump you full of Remdesivir, intubate you, or any of the numerous other treatments to attempt to stop if f*****g your day up in a terminal manner. People like this deserve to be called out and ridiculed at every opportunity. We're 18 months into this, we know what's happening, hundreds of millions have had the jabs, it's just yet another excuse to play the martyr, be the centre of attention.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Cosmo Smallpiece on September 20, 2021, 05:50:22 pm
Harsh to refuse them treatment. How about if anti- vaxers are 10 times more likely to get hospitalised then they pay 10 times the National Insurance rate?  :-\
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: pwhole on September 20, 2021, 05:52:24 pm
I wouldn't refuse them a bed if there are plenty to go around. I would give the bed to a vaccinated person first however.

Of course if there are plenty of spare beds available, then fine - even I'm not that ruthless. But I'm getting there  8)
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: pwhole on September 20, 2021, 05:53:58 pm
Harsh to refuse them treatment. How about if anti- vaxers are 10 times more likely to get hospitalised then they pay 10 times the National Insurance rate?  :-\

A Covid tax! Genius. You should send that idea to Rishi Sunak, though he will of course claim it was his idea :)
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Cap'n Chris on September 20, 2021, 05:55:17 pm
Only if overweight people and/or smokers are denied any and all forms of NHS treatment, if that's how the world is now trending. Obv..

Perhaps cave rescue (etc.) should follow suit and only attend for people who aren't a liability to themselves too. This forum is certainly showing its colours. 

I'd be amazed if anyone who has been DJd and/or boosted/vaccinated would be in need of any ITU care whatsoever (given that the very reason for being innoculated is specifically to make this unnecessary) hence almost all ITU care by definition will be for those who are unwell because they aren't protected. Obv..
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Fishes on September 20, 2021, 05:57:17 pm
Harsh to refuse them treatment. How about if anti- vaxers are 10 times more likely to get hospitalised then they pay 10 times the National Insurance rate?  :-\

I wonder how many of them actually pay national insurance.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: PeteHall on September 20, 2021, 06:16:36 pm
Only if overweight people and/or smokers are denied any and all forms of NHS treatment

This.

And add to that anyone who's injured themselves through drinking, drugs, breaking the speed limit, getting into a fight etc.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: paul on September 20, 2021, 06:20:31 pm
Regarding the Poll option "Every UK citizen should get the same treatment self inflicted or not". What about Non-UK Citizens?
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 06:23:37 pm
Regarding the Poll option "Every UK citizen should get the same treatment self inflicted or not". What about Non-UK Citizens?

I knew that would come up  :clap2:, thats a REALLY big can of worms buddy   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: menacer on September 20, 2021, 06:26:10 pm
Maybe they should be forced to wear some sort of easy to recognise identifier to continue with the "Them and Us" witch hunt.
How about a yellow star?
Anyone?  :blink:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 06:27:09 pm
Only if overweight people and/or smokers are denied any and all forms of NHS treatment

This.

And add to that anyone who's injured themselves through drinking, drugs, breaking the speed limit, getting into a fight etc.

Actually Pete some patients are refused OP,s unless for example they lose weight and some a terrific amount. VERY good point though and also one I knew would crop up, thats why the option was put on there   ;)     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Paul Marvin on September 20, 2021, 06:37:45 pm
Maybe they should be forced to wear some sort of easy to recognise identifier to continue with the "Them and Us" witch hunt.
How about a yellow star?
Anyone?  :blink:


Your avatar is cool bro  :lol:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: menacer on September 20, 2021, 07:14:05 pm
Maybe they should be forced to wear some sort of easy to recognise identifier to continue with the "Them and Us" witch hunt.
How about a yellow star?
Anyone?  :blink:


Your avatar is cool bro  :lol:

It was denied an ITU bed....bro  :tease:
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Fulk on September 20, 2021, 07:16:34 pm
Or sis?
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: paul on September 20, 2021, 07:18:04 pm
Regarding the Poll option "Every UK citizen should get the same treatment self inflicted or not". What about Non-UK Citizens?

I knew that would come up  :clap2: , thats a REALLY big can of worms buddy   :thumbsup:

So what is the point of this question and Poll then? It seems to be an attempt to cause arguments rather than start a reasonable discussion on an emotive subject.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: darren on September 20, 2021, 07:22:20 pm
Maybe they should be forced to wear some sort of easy to recognise identifier to continue with the "Them and Us" witch hunt.
How about a yellow star?
Anyone?  :blink:

Easy to spot, no mask.

Always a good indication of who to give an extra wide berth.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: alastairgott on September 20, 2021, 07:26:43 pm
Regarding the Poll option "Every UK citizen should get the same treatment self inflicted or not". What about Non-UK Citizens?

If they’ve filled in the uk passenger locator form then they deserve a medal and a knighthood, never mind Covid treatment! Far easier to get out of Britain than it is to get in.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Badlad on September 20, 2021, 08:18:24 pm
Guys, guys...  what is it with these divisive covid/vaccine discussions.  This is a caving forum and whereas we are tolerant of many diverse discussions and light hearted stuff this is getting too much.  Please....
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: mr conners on September 20, 2021, 08:48:39 pm
I agree, seems a bit too Jeremy Vine for a caving forum.
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: Mark on September 20, 2021, 09:41:38 pm
I agree, seems a bit too Jeremy Vine for a caving forum.

More like Jeremy Kyle
Title: Re: Should Anti Vaccine People be Entitled to a ITU Bed ?
Post by: David Rose on September 20, 2021, 09:53:26 pm
I'm with Badlad here. I have strong views on this subject, but I don't think a caving forum is the place to air them. Apart from anything else, what good does it do?

The reality is: there are anti-vaxxers. Some will get very ill. They will get treatment. Some will recover, others not. End of.

Global Moderator Comment Topic locked as it's caused enough division already. Let's try to get back to caving chat. :hug:
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