Brains this was a perfectly innocent and non-mischievous comment. Please don't accuse me of doing things I have been warned against, and which I have given an undertaking to desist from.

Perhaps it has something to do with the BCA wanting to be seen to be encouraging cavers to cave responsibly, by making access as trouble-free as is practical for those who are ...... responsible. I would expect a national representative body to do this and to enshrine it in a constitution as a...

Maybe it's just me, but I just want to know if the bloke is OK. I tried translating the FB comments and there is much the same sort of debate there. Very sad for the chap.

I suppose the main priority one looks for is going to depend on who it is that wants to know. If I was a cave owner and my main priority was to protect the cave, but at the same time was happy for people to visit it, I would want to know that the visitors were not going to spoil anything, so I...

It would be nice to come back to the original request, stop looking for hidden messages or agenda, and consider this: Let's assume that should it come to pass, however regretfully, that some unavoidable process requires you to demonstrate that you are a responsible caver Bearing in mind that...

But would those be the actions of a "responsible caver"? I don't have a view either way on what Chris says, by the way. The thing about how we do things in this country is we get by with woolly definitions - trying to pin exactitude down is nigh on impossible.

Here and now is more precise. My simple point was that if people no longer post here due to the debate, you won't get that part of the picture. Obviously.

I had been away caving for two weekends on the trot. A third one was out of the question! There's only so much you can fit into weekends throughout the year. The CSCC AGM was for me more important.

Pretty bits are rather like the large cuddly mammals of the nature conservation story. It's the ugly creatures that often need more protection, but due to their lower aesthetic appeal, the mud and sand tend to be ignored more. Pretties are the attraction for a great many caving trips, and are...

And how many don't come here or can't come here since the ballot, and why, and therefore will not be adding to the stats that Ian wants.

Know any good QCs, Droid?

I think you'll find that I used the word first, Droid!! Time for a new argument - :lol:

Three bits of advice have stuck in my mind, two of which have the potential to reduce bickering, the third is a simple well-known morale-raising phrase in the face of a barrage of antipathy from several members. 1. "Don't play with the mad people, Peter". Not so far from the second, I suppose...

I will not respond to your provocation. See yesterday's comments regarding responding to you.

The point was, and of course it gets buried in deliberate obfuscation, that there are enough authoritative comments, whether legal opinions or authoritative critiques of that opinion, for a third party to form an independent opinion of their own.