are there any clubs that will alow under 18s to join in the mendip area

[Peter Burgess]

The Scouts are such an organisation, I think you will find. If you look at all the hoops they have to jump through, it might put you off, though.

 

[cap n chris]

I think this is much more specialised than the Scouts. Caving regions around the country could/should have a youth section which specifically caters for the U18s wishing to get heavily involved in caving - I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible for a cave-specific youth caving group to be established which provides SRT training, conservation work, classic trips, etc. to keen young people. Perhaps it's a can of worms but then so is anything nowadays. It would need the backing/support of caving parents - so, if a young caver has a caving parent you've got the beginnings of your organisation. I/we established a caving club about 8 years ago (still going strong) and it was VERY SIMPLE. You can PM me for details if you wish.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I am personally aware of two such caving groups from the past. Both were run specifically for children, both were run by adults who rightly or wrongly were suspected by many of having an ulterior motive. I would be VERY wary of letting my two boys join such a group, unless I knew 100 percent that the organiser(s) could be trusted.

 

[cap n chris]

.. hence the prerequisite that it is run and supported by caving parents. Without this fundamental organisational structure there could be no gainsaying of the witch hunt accusatory mentality.

 

[cap n chris]

BTW, Good Morning, Peter!

 

[Peter Burgess]

This week someone suggested that "the problem with youngsters today" is that they don't spend enough time with adults and spend too much time with their peers. If a youngster wants to take up caving, it seems like a good idea for the parents to get involved as well. But if the teenager wants to go caving cos he knows its a good way of getting away from his parents gaze, it would defeat the object of his wishes. Difficult one, that. What I do know is that whenever caving adults of my acquaintance have got their children involved in caving, they have either taken to it like a duck to water, or we see them once and never again. The former predominate, though. When youngsters have wanted to join us without their parents getting involved, they often don't last the course. Either we aren't 'child-friendly' or this is just a natural state of affairs - youngsters aren't comfortable as a minority in the presence of 'mature' adults. 'Mature' might not be the right word!

Good morning, Chris.

 

[cap n chris]

Good points, Peter; I suppose there is also a third way - get a gang of young keen wannabe cavers to establish their "club" (either formally or informally) and then have a £3 per person per week sub; this pot (no pun intended) then purchases in a monthly trip hiring a police-checked, qualified caving leader (including all kit) - the parents would ultimately be coughing up the money so in reality the child wouldn't even need to put money aside: all they would require is the support of their parent(s). A cave leader could come up with a progression of trips suitable for the group and after 12 trips the children would know (a) whether they were still interested in caving and (b) they would be pretty proficient and an excellent potential recruit for a local club. Otherwise there is always the chance that a club would see a youngster as a liability and someone whose parents just wanted to provide the child with free caving experience otherwise more suited to being supplied by an outdoor pursuits company. I admit to having a vested interest in this idea as it could be a source of employment.

 

[ian.p]

geting involved in caving and learning technical skills isnt the problem Forest school camps covers that nicely and theres already a large bunch of us "pathfinders" (15-17) who have been caving with FSC for a very long time the problem is that FSC only has 4 caving meets a year and the members are scaterd all over the country with no transport making regular caving trips extreamly dificult.

AS to caving with parents personaly i already do but at the moment depending on how many of my brothers are caving as well were usualy limited to straight forward trips like swildons sump 1 where if somthing went wrong another party is likley to come across you in a fairly short period of time (and yes we do always leave a call out time) hence some variety would be nice 

I dont know how to quote yet so i wont but peters coment about caving with scouts arnt they suposed to be the people who keep throwing themselves in to large holes braking themselves and then having to be rescued? 

 

[cap n chris]

caving with scouts arnt they suposed to be the people who keep throwing themselves in to large holes braking themselves and then having to be rescued? 

Well, so long Ian.p. Looks like it's time for you to assume a new identity and leave the country.

It was nice reading your 13 posts.

 

[Brains]

Anybody else out there familiar with the strange and bizarre way Scouting regulates / certifies its caving / climbing leaders? Seems not quite to match NGB guidelines by my interpretation

 

[cap n chris]

. Dunno. Anyone?... anyone?....

 

[Peter Burgess]

I dont know how to quote yet so i wont but peters coment about caving with scouts arnt they suposed to be the people who keep throwing themselves in to large holes braking themselves and then having to be rescued? 

I wasn't suggesting they were an option for going caving, just that they are an organisation run by adults for children, and any caving club set up by adults for children would have to meet the same strict set up rules as the Scouts.

 

[finster]

I might be able to shed some light on the way the Scout Association regulates/certifies its caving leaders. One of my hats is Caving Advisor for Bucks Scouts, the Scout Association has it own unique way of regulating caving, although things are changing to fall in line with NGB. Currently to be a "caving assesor" to assess cave leaders for horizontal caves you must hold level one LCMLA and Level 2 for vertical stuff, however, this system is open to interpritation and to be a cave leader you should  have the appropriate experience...also open to interpritation.  The problem you have like most youth organisation that are volinteer based is getting the volinteers therefore hence the current system I believe.  I will say though that My team in Bucks the standards are set to NGB level and most of the team are doing the Level one, but it varies from county to county. If you want further reading on how the Scout association conducts itself try this link http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/ps/activities/factfile.php?ID=14 while your there check out the bucks site too http://www.bucks-activities.org.uk/cave/index.htm.

 

[ian.p]

in farness to the scouts i have only heard a few horer stories about them regarding caving im sure most of the time they are probably perfectly safe.

 

[finster]

your probably right the Scout association doesn't have a great name when it comes to activities, mainly a few rotten eggs spoil it for everyone else.  Like I said the standards vary from county to county.