Cave conservation questions

[thehungrytroglobite]

Hi all,

I'm working on a project with Campaign for National Parks called 'Parks in the Dark' which aims to shed light (pun unintended) on subterranean spaces in the national parks of England & Wales. This will include concise information on the history, ecology & unique features of subterranean spaces in the relevant national parks. The end products will be a booklet available in limited numbers of physical copy and available to be viewed for free online, and there will be posters for each national park which will hopefully be displayed in the visitor centres. There will also be pointers towards resources for how to get into caving. The primary aims are to highlight how incredible the subterranean spaces of our national parks are, draw attention to the need for improved cave conservation and improve access to lesser visited parts of national parks. A particular aspect of the project is on youth voice so there will be particular attention drawn to how subterranean spaces support young people in different national parks but the booklet & posters will be of interest to any visitors of national parks that are not already cavers/mine explorers.

There are quite a few questions I'd like to ask on here in relation to the project but I will put them into different threads over stages as they vary a lot, and some may spark conversation which will get confusing if there are multiple conversations going on at once. My first question refers to cave conservation.

1) What are the main issues/concerns in terms of cave conservation at the moment? I would be especially interested to hear if any are localised to specific national parks.
2) What are the main points you would highlight to encourage good cave conservation practice to visitors of subterranean spaces in national parks?
3) What case studies of poor cave conservation have happened in the past that we might learn from? Eg. graffiti, rubbish dumped, archaeological deposits disturbed, stals being smashed etc. I'm particularly interested in instances that involve general visitors / non-cavers so they might have taken place in cave entrances too, but all examples are welcome.

Please be aware that any information you provide is something I may write about in the booklet (obviously using my own words / without plagiarism) and please state clearly if you do not want the information to be included.
I am interested in both caves, mines and any other forms of subterranean space.
Feel free to add anything else related to the topic that you think might be of interest, and to point me towards any existing resources that might be relevant in case I haven't found them yet.

 

[Pegasus]

I'm sure you're aware of it, however www.newtocaving.com is a great resource to point folks to.

My main bugbear re cave conservation is sometimes the conservation measures themselves (using large quantities of tape for example) detract from the cave to such an extent the pretties are lost to the eye because all you see is manmade crap.

Good luck with the project 🙂

 

[JoshW]

Yordas is a prime example of people having that sense of adventure to go and explore underground but not quite understanding about the effect of doing stupid stuff, with names regularly scratched into the walls. Often see posts from cavers doing their best to remove it.

It’s that fine balance needed between educating people whilst not dampening the adventurous spirit.

 

[Leclused]

For a lot of info the conservation page of SC Avalon is a good start. Best practices, method and examples of vandalism,...

Conservation page SC Avalon

An in the subforum Uk caving conservation subforum there are several goods threads about this topic.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Certainly one to watch and criticise are some of the awful photos one sees. Folk stood on fragile areas for a good pose. I must say that most are foreign. Taping is controversial paricularly in small areas. We changed the tape colour in The Frozen Deep from that horrid orange to a slimmer white. Totally necessary in an untrod floor of 3,000 square metres. Agen Alwedd main passage is awful. Looks like a police crime scene and a bit late to think about it now. Grafitti is getting worse though not necessarily by true cavers. Eglys Faen being a point but many non cavers go there as its open access. Similiarly some of the so called fixed aids are intrusive . I think the pole in Agen Alwedd entrance series has been taken out. Fixed ladders are also controversial though we have three in Reservoir Hole. Of course the ultimate conservation control requires locked gates and even cave wardens to take trips. Still many cavers dont like that. Essentially down the line you have to write some caves off. Goatchurch comes to mind and sadly Eglys is heading that way though the Chelsea are planning a clean up. Certainly more caves could be helped with pressure washing as has been proved in Pridhamsleigh and Swildons. Dust is spoiling some areas like Pillar Chamber in Shatter Cave where we insist on clean kit before entry. The sparkle has pretty much gone since 1969. At least we got those horrid mud prints off from the originally exploring idiot who walked across it. Sadly the minute a " virgin " cave is found it becomes a slow downhill process. As for mines Box has been utterly trashed by spray paint paricularly in The Cathedral. Open access here lead to all sorts of abuse over the years and sadly now the "quarries " are " technically " closed. A simple access proceedure with locked gates years back would have stopped all of that. At the end so many non caving idiots were getting rescued the owners just had enough. Even the long standing brick " Robots "were destroyed by idiots. There are some that education will never reach.

 

[caving_fox]

I'm working on a project with Campaign for National Parks called 'Parks in the Dark' which aims to shed light (pun unintended) on subterranean spaces in the national parks of England & Wales. This will include concise information on the history, ecology & unique features of subterranean spaces in the relevant national parks. The end products will be a booklet available in limited numbers of physical copy and available to be viewed for free online, and there will be posters for each national park which will hopefully be displayed in the visitor centres. There will also be pointers towards resources for how to get into caving. The primary aims are to highlight how incredible the subterranean spaces of our national parks are, draw attention to the need for improved cave conservation and improve access to lesser visited parts of national parks. A particular aspect of the project is on youth voice so there will be particular attention drawn to how subterranean spaces support young people in different national parks but the booklet & posters will be of interest to any visitors of national parks that are not already cavers/mine explorers.

That's a very cool thing to be involved with! Sounds a lot of fun.

1) is certainly applicable to NP in the broader sense. It's the balance between: welcoming everybody and being inclusive encouraging the sense of exploration and adventure, versus: too many people. Everyone no matter how careful is contributing to erosion and damage. Cave specifically are very low energy environments, heat food light and movement disturb whatever ecosystem is there. Rock and pristine mud can't be replaced once damaged. But if no-one has access who will know about it? I think the biggest difference with caves is the length of time needed for their formation and how long it would take to revert to 'natural'

What is it that we're conserving? Caves (and NP) are dynamic they do change over time. But there's no need for humans to hasten matters in a different direction to the natural progression?

 

[IanWalker]

Sounds like quite a project!

Hopefully you are able to include material from the CNCC's conservation page

Cave Conservation

Most of the caves and potholes in the North of England have SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) status, either for botanical, biological or geological in

cncc.org.uk

and the BCA minimal impact caving guidelines

Minimal Impact Caving Guidelines

By following the few simple guidelines set out here, the cave environment can be conserved for future generations to enjoy.

cncc.org.uk

News items from cave clean-ups - and threads on this forum showing litter removed - may help with pictures.

I feel we should encourage everyone to take care of the natural resource, and be careful not to point the finger at casual visitors or farmers when cavers themselves do so much damage.

 

[Leclused]

Already a classic clip about a large scale cleaning operation with power washer can be seen here

Power washer cleaning - Grotte Sainte Anne (Belgium)

Today 13 years later the cave became even cleaner by other follow-up actions and the visitors are more and more aware of their impact.

 

[Rachel]

The clean up at Gunnerfleet is the most spectacular one I've personally seen. We hauled fridge freezers, car parts, all sorts of junk and loads of used syringes out, filling two big skips

 

[kay]

The clean up at Gunnerfleet is the most spectacular one I've personally seen. We hauled fridge freezers, car parts, all sorts of junk and loads of used syringes out, filling two big skips

It was a whole kitchen, wasn't it? There was certainly an oven and a sink unit to go with the fridge freezers, and a comprehensive set of cooking utensils. But it wasn't exactly "in the dark"

 

[Pitlamp]

The Kail Pot clean up was pretty impressive too.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

The clean up at Gunnerfleet is the most spectacular one I've personally seen. We hauled fridge freezers, car parts, all sorts of junk and loads of used syringes out, filling two big skips

Wow. Isn't Gunnerfleet quite a trek to get to / quite far away from the road? Do you know who organised the clean up - was it CNCC or a particular club?

 

[DuncJ]

Wow. Isn't Gunnerfleet quite a trek to get to / quite far away from the road?

Gunnerfleet is just beyond the viaduct, probably not quite a mile from the road. In the same area, which you may be confusing with, is Greensett Cave, which is a long trek up the hill.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Gunnerfleet is just beyond the viaduct, probably not quite a mile from the road. In the same area, which you may be confusing with, is Greensett Cave, which is a long trek up the hill.

Ah yes, I was thinking of Greensett!

 

[kay]

Wow. Isn't Gunnerfleet quite a trek to get to / quite far away from the road? Do you know who organised the clean up - was it CNCC or a particular club?

It was a CNCC clean up but featured quite a few BPC members, as well as members from other clubs

 

[kay]

The Kail Pot clean up was pretty impressive too.

So was Daimler. The Daimler wasn't the only vehicle down there if I remember rightly, or I may be thinking of Homeshaw - one of them we got 3 cars out of.

 

[Andy Farrant]

Sounds like an interesting project. if you are looking at the history, ecology & unique features of subterranean spaces in the relevant national parks, then you might wish to consider that many of our cave systems in the National Parks are also Sites of Special Scientific Interest for their geology, geomorphology and hydrology, as well has having ecological interest. I suggest you also reach out to the BCRA as they will have information that would be of interest to you. John Gunn in particular would be worth chatting to regarding caves and karst in the Peak District National Park.

Many features of geological interest often get missed when it comes to conservation, although there is an increasing awareness of some features such as cryogenic calcite and sediment deposits in caves.

And I do wish people would stop drilling holes into the rock to support pins for holding conservation tape. It is damaging, unsightly and completely unnecessary.

 

[PeteHall]

And I do wish people would stop drilling holes into the rock to support pins for holding conservation tape. It is damaging, unsightly and completely unnecessary.

And what would you suggest as an alternative?

Much as I agree that taping is unsightly, it is the best tool at our disposal for protecting features that may otherwise be damaged, so it could be argued that it is necessary.

In terms of whether it is damaging in itself, of course it is, but does it matter? The cave doesn't care, the bats don't care or whatever other ecology might be present. It doesn't change our understanding of the geomorphology. To my mind, the only reason the damage matters is because it damages the view, but in so doing, it protects other features of greater value. In caves that are visited, it is therefore a necessary evil.

I needn't add that if caves were not visited, taping would be unnecessary, but what's the point of protecting the aesthetics of something if nobody could see it anyway?

Given the assumption that some form of taping is necessary, the old practice of laying plastic tape on the ground is not ideal, as it becomes muddy and damaged, or worse (as has happened in Otter Hole), it gets set into the calcite!

Supporting tape (or reflective cord, such as 1mm dive line) on stainless risers keeps it off the ground, off the formations and visible. It seems to me to be the least-worst option in many situations, but I'm very happy to have my mind changed.

 

[JoshW]

Oooh I’ve just remembered about 5 years ago I interviewed rob middleton about cave conservation. I wonder if I can find it/publish it somewhere 🤔

 

[topcat]

Drilling for tape is fine by me, especially if it means getting the tape off the formations and set in the optimum place.I
I like cord rather than 2" wide tape though. ......