Caves Of How Stean, Nidderdale

[diggerdog adam]

Just A warning note to any cavers thinking of planning a off the cuff trip down any of the caves with in the How stean area !

As many of you will know How stean gorge was sold a bit back and the new owners have clamped down on the access to the caves on there land.

In time gone by it was just a case of popping in to the cafe and asking howard if it was ok and never in the last ten years had it been a problem, however, now it would seem that you go to the cafe fill in a form,(a couple of weeks before) have a full risk assement, proof of the club membership and each caver must have proof of induviual insurance!

Oh and not for getting payment well in advance!

And no absailing from the bridge during weekends (restricted times mid week)

Well all i can say is what a shame, what sort of a world are we living in

By the way credit to the black sheep diggers with the new entrance to eglins in the carpark

If any one else has had proplems with of the cuff access drop a line

 

[dunc]

Sounds a bit, well, OTT to me... (and thats my polite opinion!)

:soapbox:I can kind of understand the owners need for insurance in our sad twisted little two-faced country that dismisses the blame/claim culture as pathetic but constantly makes use of it and reaps the benefits whilst destroying the very fabric of our land and culture!!

To have to produce evidence and pay in advance seems a bit daft to me - whats soo wrong with turning up on the day - showing proof of insurance (if needs really must) and paying (which I wouldn't complain about a small fee for say parking)...?

I mean its not like a showcave where we might disrupt or get in the way of the paying public apart from Tom Taylors - talking of which - do they still allow access to that? Surely thats a bit risky to allow incompetent members of the public to wander freely through such a dangerous environment???

 

[diggerdog adam]

Ar, Tom Talyors, Glad you mentioned that there is now a 2ftX1ft Red sign that looked totally out of place saying something to the efect no access unless you buy a ticket from the shop dont know the prices but my guess it be a few quid !

Come Back Howard and Pam

 

[dunc]

:shout: "various obscenities"

:rip: How Stean...

 

[Cavegod]

well you know my answer to this problem! whats tat you dont well its simple just go and do them bolox to em!

 

[diggerdog adam]

Ermmm, Cave god, dont know who you are or where your from

but its people like you that get cavers bad names!

 

[Dave H]

I'm certainly with diggerdog on this one.
<high-horse>Also, don't they teach spelling or grammar in your neck of the woods?</high-horse>

It's only sensible to follow the access rules, however strict, because onerous as they may be, at least you'll still be able to gain access! If a few people blatantly ignore the restrictions then access could be taken away completely.
Things like this should be left to the locals to sort out – they are the ones who can build a rapport with the landowner over time, and hopefully negotiate a better solution in the future.

 

[Cavegod]

Ermmm, Cave god, dont know who you are or where your from

but its people like you that get cavers bad names!

you do know who i am and as for your comment i go caving i like caving, this country is f####d up so i do as i please where i please and no one is gonna stop me.

 

[Yellerbelly]

One reason this country is, as you say, f####d up is because of this attitude. This lack of respect for private property, which it is after all, could lead to more caves being gated, and who wants that?

With views like this what hope is there for the future of both country and caving?

 

[dunc]

This lack of respect for private property, which it is after all, could lead to more caves being gated, and who wants that?

Nobody wants gated caves...
But...
Whilst lack of respect to property is more than likely a factor - the ever present nanny state is the real cause of gating and stupid access situations.. In other words landowners don't want Jo Public wandering willy nilly into open/dug holes for fear of litigation resulting from their stupidity and resulting injury/death - the sooner we restrict lawyer/insurance c***s like this the better - but thats just a unrealistic ideal as people in this country either haven't got the guts to stand up to it or prefer to "blame and claim"...

With views like this what hope is there for the future of both country and caving?

Whilst I have no intention of siding with cavegods attitude I will say....
Have you got the guts to say no to the compensation culture?? - most people in this country see this as a profitable venture so wouldn't do so - that is what is REALLY destroying this country, not some minor attitude towards access to caves.....

 

[Yellerbelly]

I dislike the "blame and claim" culture as much as anyone else, but it is here and us "little" people have not much hope of altering that fact. However this minor attiude towards access must surely have some effect as well when discussed in public either on this forum or anywhere else.

If people have this opion on access why don't they just go underground and keep it to themselves, that way nobody is any the wiser and no problem caused, unless they get caught.

Yes I would say no to claiming compensation if I did something stupid, and I would like to think that other cavers would thgink the same way.

Oh by the way would you like Jo Public to wander willy nilly into your open hole?

 

[dunc]

but it is here and us "little" people have not much hope of altering that fact.

Little people?? - its the little clueless people of this country that actually make use of it - if everyone stopped blaming and claiming it wouldn't exist - simple.. But we are a greedy nation and like you say it won't be changed - maybe....... :twisted:

why don't they just go underground and keep it to themselves

There is an element of caving society that won't accept that - in other words - if they come across pirates and the such like they would make an issue out of it - fair enough most trips would go un-noticed and un-hindered but the odd ones wouldn't... Be open or be revealed?

Yes I would say no to claiming compensation if I did something stupid, and I would like to think that other cavers would thgink the same way.

Glad to hear it.. I'm sure most other cavers take that line too..

Oh by the way would you like Jo Public to wander willy nilly into your open hole?

Lets try and keep it clean eh!!
Oh, hang on.. do you mean if I had a cave on my land - open access would be my policy!

 

[pisshead]

Haven't we already had enough debates on this topic?

I think we can safely say we're not all going to agree. I think there are pretty much two groups and both are as set in their ways as each other.

If no one's going to move their position, why are we wasting time getting all steamed up about it?

Just my point of view!

 

[dunc]

Haven't we already had enough debates on this topic?

Shall we all be quiet about certain topics purely because people don't agree..? I thought forums were for - quote someone "people giving their opinions" - if we don't and remain silent the forum thus becomes quieter..

And thats just my point of view/opinion/5ps worth...

 

[graham]

Apart from the irritation factor, isn't it the case that most of these caves are flood prone. If a trip is organised that far in advance then it is going to go ahead even if the weather is a bit iffy. That is dangerous. :idea:

 

[diggerdog adam]

One of the probs in that neck of the woods theres not that many other caves in the "local area" that would be accesable if these caves were flooded out so graham i can see where your coming from

But the irritation factor for me is that up untill the "sale" access was very reasonable lets just hope that things relax with a bit of time