Giant's Hole Round - Crabwalk Roof Connection Rope Length

[Jamie]

Hey guys,

3 of us are going to do the Giant's round trip at the weekend. I'm the only one of us who has done that trip, and it was my first caving experience, so we were lowered down from above the crabwalk and our instructor took the rope and traversed along the top to meet us. We're all plenty SRT drilled enough now, but I'm wondering how people normally tackle this?

A: Rig a pull-through for all three of us. What length would this require? Would also involve lugging a long heavy rope through the crabwalk.
B: Rig a standard Y-hang for the other two and I de-rig and go across the traverse alone. What length would this need?
C: We all go across the traverse without rope. I have no knowledge of what the traverse is like in terms of difficulty, we've all caved plenty and boulder regularly, is it particularly exposed? One guy sometimes gets a bit nervous on some traverses without rope, mental thing. Also means one less rope bag for us.

What would you peeps suggest?

Sorry if this is discussed somewhere else, I tried my best to find other topics about this,

Thanks!
Jamie

 

[LarryFatcat]

According to COD, the Crabwalk is 14m below, after Giants Windpipe. This descent is best tackled as a pull thru and has a chain Y hang with a ring for this purpose. We usually do the traverse down and carry a rope to support the less confident, where necessary.

 

[Jamie]

According to COD, the Crabwalk is 14m below, after Giants Windpipe. This descent is best tackled as a pull thru and has a chain Y hang with a ring for this purpose. We usually do the traverse down and carry a rope to support the less confident, where necessary.

Cheers Larry. What is COD?

So we should be good for the trip with just a 20m for Garlands and a 30m for the traverse pull-through?

 

[LarryFatcat]

Cheers Larry. What is COD?

So we should be good for the trip with just a 20m for Garlands and a 30m for the traverse pull-through?

COD is Caves of Derbyshire- sorry, should have been C0PD- Caves of the Peak District- https://thedca.org.uk/publications/caves-of-the-peak-district/ .

In the past, I've taken a 40m for the pull thru but COPD says the drop is 14m (2x 14m= 28m)
The traverse is easiest- looks a lot scarier than it is.
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[wellyjen]

The Crewe rigging guide has a 40m rope for the pull through, but that length is pretty generous and you could probably get away with a bit less.
https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging-guide/giants2.html
Climbing down to the Crabwalk at a point closer to Garlands isn't difficult. If you are just doing the round trip, you'll have to take a rope with you for the pull through, if you don't want to climb down. If you've been further towards the East Canal, you'll have a rope with you any way.

 

[moorebooks]

COD is Caves of Derbyshire- sorry, should have been C0PD- Caves of the Peak District- https://thedca.org.uk/publications/caves-of-the-peak-district/ .

In the past, I've taken a 40m for the pull thru but COPD says the drop is 14m (2x 14m= 28m)
The traverse is easiest- looks a lot scarier than it is.
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View attachment 16061



View attachment 16059

I have copies available £20.00 + P&P
https://www.moorebooks.co.uk/Caves-of-the-Peak-District-Guide-Book.html

Mike

 

[andrewmcleod]

When I do it with a bunch of EUSS students on our annual pilgrimage to the Peak, I tend to get all the SRT kits and rope in a bag and climb up at the start of the trip and dump them all out of the way in the passage just before the pull-through anchor. Then I tend to just belay people to me and lower people down the hole using the pull-through anchor (less faff than getting them to abseil and usually everyone is cold by then). I usually traverse about 10-30m further along the top and then climb down myself. This saves a lot of dragging (typically) three bags of SRT kits and ropes through the crabwalk and the rest of the cave. Wearing your SRT kit through the crabwalk is just going to scratch up the rock and so should be avoided.

The tricky bit is a) working out where to climb up (although if you climb up too early the traverse along the top is not too bad) and b) working out how to communicate with your group once you have disappeared into the sky! I've settle for just taking the one bag of rope up, traversing along until I get to the anchors, dropping the rope down, climbing back down to find the group, taking them to the bottom of the group, climbing back up and hauling up the bags with the rope, then climbing back down again...

If you fall off the top of the crabwalk while traversing, there is a reasonable chance you will die. Thus I no longer send students along any part of it unroped.

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Not for the inexperienced, but at the far end of the traverse, just before an interesting bit, there is an obvious jug hold at floor level, with a groove worn in it by ropes. A metre before that it is possible to descend without rope by using friction (arms, thighs etc).
So you don't need a rope after Garlands.

 

[Brains]

Traditionally, before the bolts and abseil ring were installed, we would traverse forward to a balcony with a large eye hole. From here it is an easy wriggle to the stream (either side of the balcony or the eye hole thread), sometimes with a hand line for the nervous. Alternatively the traverse continues at high level through a blank section and calcite narrows. This leads to a small roof oxbow and back to the roof of crabwalk. From here a descending traverse, sometimes exposed, leads back to the stream. As Jen says, if you have been to Geology Pot you will have rope anyway. If not, you don't really need it. If you fall off the traverse, make like starfish and jam, or just wedge up easily...

 

[Jamie]

Thanks for the advice everyone. After hearing about the traverse it sounds like one of my group might be too anxious for it. So we'll just do the pull-through.

I really like the idea Andrew has of climbing up at the start and leaving the rope and SRT kit but since I don't know what I'm looking for I think I'll give that a miss and just deal with slogging the stuff around.

 

[andrewmcleod]

I really like the idea Andrew has of climbing up at the start and leaving the rope and SRT kit but since I don't know what I'm looking for I think I'll give that a miss and just deal with slogging the stuff around.

probably a good decision; it's easy enough to find your way around at the top but it all looks the same from the bottom and it's a right faff trying to find the right place to climb up...

 

[alastairgott]

I was shown by Rob Eavis where to climb up and have never looked back, i'll usually scoot down from garlands through Chert hall and then you will get down to quite a recognisable 1-1.5m drop off in the stream with a left and right hand corner straight after, and a oxbow above (inset light blue).

Either go round the oxbow (bold climb with not many features) and continue traversing from there or go round the double corner at streamlevel and climb up at the red X, this will allow you to traverse along getting higher as you go, encouraged that your going the right way with traverse bolts in the wall. till you get to a double oxbow, from memory it goes off to the left before then sweeping back on the right of the streamway below (through some lovely gour pools, worth seeing!) and to a small drop down to the eyehole squeeze.

For a beginners trip i would carry a rope up this way, dump it at the pull down ring, and then abseil down. you can fixed rig it at this point, and then convert to a pull down later.

I always feel like dumping the rope their first will save you effort in carrying it round, but if there's three of you, you can just share the bag round?

I would encourage you to have a look at the ascending traverse/oxbows before the eyehole and the traverse going from the pull down to the eyehole even if you're set on dragging thee rope/bag round. at most 8mins on the way in and 5 mins on the way out.

 

[Jamie]

I was shown by Rob Eavis where to climb up and have never looked back, i'll usually scoot down from garlands through Chert hall and then you will get down to quite a recognisable 1-1.5m drop off in the stream with a left and right hand corner straight after, and a oxbow above (inset light blue).

Either go round the oxbow (bold climb with not many features) and continue traversing from there or go round the double corner at streamlevel and climb up at the red X, this will allow you to traverse along getting higher as you go, encouraged that your going the right way with traverse bolts in the wall. till you get to a double oxbow, from memory it goes off to the left before then sweeping back on the right of the streamway below (through some lovely gour pools, worth seeing!) and to a small drop down to the eyehole squeeze.

For a beginners trip i would carry a rope up this way, dump it at the pull down ring, and then abseil down. you can fixed rig it at this point, and then convert to a pull down later.

I always feel like dumping the rope their first will save you effort in carrying it round, but if there's three of you, you can just share the bag round?

I would encourage you to have a look at the ascending traverse/oxbows before the eyehole and the traverse going from the pull down to the eyehole even if you're set on dragging thee rope/bag round. at most 8mins on the way in and 5 mins on the way out.

Cheers for all that Alastair, I'll give it a go if I can figure it out when I'm there at the weekend!

 

[caving_fox]

I usually freeclimb down. The best spot to do so is just after the ring, carry on very easy walking traverse until the obvious calcite narrowing. Just before here are some jammed boulders you have to corkscrew a bit facing one way and the other, but there are good footholds ledges and the boulders help a lot. Alternatively carry on traversing through the calcite narrow which is the most intimidating bit but not hard as there's no room to slip. Would take a rope to belay beginners down, although I free climbed it still massively hungover as one of my very early trips.