jasonbirder said:
Do you think that this sentence really applies to those who, or so we are told, are putting copies of Ms Rose's opinion in their car windows up on the fells instead of displaying the required permits?
If Mrs Rose opinion is correct then the permits aren't
required
As the situation stands currently - if the Landowner or their agent feels strongly enough about it they could challenge Cavers on his land and ask them to leave...as it is no-one seems to be batting an eyelid...which puts the whole "antagonising Landowners" argument in a more realistic light...
It could be the landowners assume cavers are generally abiding by the agreements made and will be a little upset to find agreements are no longer valid, which is why I suggested that it would be a good idea if the BCA consult landowners after todays meeting PRIOR to asking NE to reconsider, if that is what is decided.
In this debate, who is speaking for the caves?
Whatever you feel about how Graham expresses his views the point is a valid one. Is the right of cavers to have free access more important than the need to protect caves?
This has nothing to do with people speaking for less cavers or less caving, most of us are in favour of improved access, I certainly am. Most people in favour of CRoW accept that most who are against are still in favour of improved access overall. The debate is about how we achieve it, do we negotiate better access, or do we use CRoW to demand it? You can distort that if you wish but by doing so it's you that's being contrary.
Try these questions, when considering whether CRoW should apply to caving:
What is best for our caves?
What is best for caving?
What is best for cavers?
If your answers to the first three are different what priority do you give the three questions, which is the most, and least important?
Some may feel they are equally important, I happen to feel that our priority should be caves, caving, then cavers. That way we get the best long term balance, cavers acting in the interests of caving, and caving in the best long term interest of caves.