lionels hole burrington

[stealth]

could someone give me an idea of how difficult route finding in this cave.
ive read the description in Mendip underground but would like to hear what you guys have to say.
Ive never been in this one and am thinking of taking my lot down it this weekend, just need the heads up to what i will find.

thanks 

 

[andysnook]

Hi Stealth,

I went there years ago - but could only get as far as duck 2 because the others i was with were too large to get through the duck itself or the bypass.

Recently managed the round trip though, but lead by someone else.  But, it is all very "samey" down there.  I think the first half is more distinctive (the traverse, ducks, etc).  Even our leader who had done the trip the night before had to back-track due to a wrong turn.

I think you'll be fine going past all the ducks, if you are unsure about the way on at any point simply turn back.  Duck 2 is likely to be flooded, it was a few of weeks ago.  I've done duck #2 but only when it was REALLY dry.  The bypass just before it is a good bit of fun (nice and tight).

Duck #1 is a good intro to ducks - more of a puddle really.

Let us know how you get on.

Andy

 

[Peter Burgess]

I'm the least qualified person to help on this, but my memory is that this cave's chief claim to fame is that it is a route-finding challenge. I did the round trip once, a long time ago. There is nothing else I remember about the cave other than that. Lots of boulders, squeezes, and 3-dimensional. Good luck! And remember, if the rock isn't polished, you've gone the wrong way. And if it is polished, you might still be going the wrong way like thousands of cavers before you. I don't remember any ducks, ruddy or otherwise.

 

[Elaine]

Yes, I am afraid that Lionels Hole is a difficult place to find you way around. You will have to resort to trial and error like me! I did eventually learn a round trip in there, but there are 4 or 5 squeezes along the way. Finding the boulder chamber is the easy bit. After that you keep coming back to it. Looking for well worn crawls doesn't work in Lionel's as it seems that so many people go wrong in there it all gets well worn. About every 5 or 6 feet you have a choice of crawlway to follow.

However, if it helps, the 4 or 5 squeezes are not very big, and although you can potter around in there for a couple of hours without having to do them, they will stop you getting to the further reaches of the cave.

It is hard for anyone to judge whether or not someone would fit through a squeeze - especially if you have not met them, but I would say that if you cannot get through Orange Peel passage in Goatchurch, then you would not fit through the duck in Lionel's (only about an inch of water in it these days) and that is not the smallest squeeze. These squeezes are also at awkward angles which makes it more fun.

Hope this helps!

 

[andysnook]

I'm the least qualified person to help on this, but my memory is that this cave's chief claim to fame is that it is a route-finding challenge. I did the round trip once, a long time ago. There is nothing else I remember about the cave other than that. Lots of boulders, squeezes, and 3-dimensional. Good luck! And remember, if the rock isn't polished, you've gone the wrong way. And if it is polished, you might still be going the wrong way like thousands of cavers before you. I don't remember any ducks, ruddy or otherwise.

I forgot about that - the rock is quite viscous in there - nice and sharp, and the whole place is quite "gritty".

The first duck isnt anything much to remember, but you'd remember the 2nd one - it's tight and often carrying a fair amount of water.  Immediately after it you find yourself in a smooth crawling tube with pebbles which leads on to the area by horrorfice 1.  The bypass before duck 2 bypasses this part completely.  So, if you remember the smooth tube, you've probably done duck 2.

 

[stealth]

It is hard for anyone to judge whether or not someone would fit through a squeeze - especially if you have not met them, but I would say that if you cannot get through Orange Peel passage in Goatchurch, then you would not fit through the duck in Lionel's (only about an inch of water in it these days) and that is not the smallest squeeze. These squeezes are also at awkward angles which makes it more fun.

thats me out of the equation then, i cant into orange peel at all, plus my lad wont dont squeezes any how he refuses to do the DP in goatchurch, probably will still have a look tho to see what can be done

thanks for your advice 

 

[Andy Sparrow]

could someone give me an idea of how difficult route finding in this cave.
ive read the description in Mendip underground but would like to hear what you guys have to say.
Ive never been in this one and am thinking of taking my lot down it this weekend, just need the heads up to what i will find.

thanks 

I was one of the original explorers and even I get confused.  There are a couple of useful things to remember.  Firstly, the cave gives the initial impression of being a typical steeply descending Burrington system spiralling down and down, but it is actually a long horizontal system and many people miss the two routes (one a letterbox squeeze, the other an upward scamble) that lead into the main system, ending up instead in the East Low Level.  Secondly, if you are trying to complete the Round Trip there is a critical bit of information missing in Mendip Underground.  To find the the Boulder Ruckle from the Sandwich Boulder you have to climb up in the roof for about 20 feet and then traverse.
A final word of warning - BEWARE LOOSE BOULDERS!

 

[andymorgan]

I think there have been several threads about this cave on the forum already, which are probably worth checking out.

The boulder chamber itself is very complicated, and I imagine people have spent a lot of time there looking for the way out despite being probably only 30-50m from the entrance.

I agree with andysnook that the place is quite sharp, and I would highly recommend kneepads because of this!