Novice - Runscar area

[snebbit]

Hey guys, intrigued novice here.

So far we've only touristed Valley Entrance (to the top of the pitch), Great Douk, the Churns and some of the Runscar area caves (which my 2nd question relates to). I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for new caves we could visit, something similar to these. Possibly Browgill/Birkwith?
(based on the fact that we are in Lancaster and have no tackle or SRS experience so basically only scrambling or horizontal caves - for the time being!). Hoping to join one of the Rose clubs this summer, although not sure what member reactions would be to a novice slowing them down 

Secondly, when we visited the Runscar area we got slightly confused as to which caves were which and hours of trawling the web hasn't yielded anything. We visited one somewhere near the middle and below the scar which had three separate active streamway sections (which I suspect is Thistle or Runscar), and one near the far West end of the scar which was just one ~100m through trip with only a trickle of a stream running through. We found Roger Kirk no problem. Can anyone enlighten me on what the other two are though?

Also are there any other similar novicey caves nearby? We didn't get to the Eastern end of Runscar scar, which my OS map indicates there a few.

Cheers

 

[damian]

Possibly Browgill/Birkwith?

Add Old Ing to that list and you will have a superb day's caving. In Old Ing there is one deep pool which has some bolts in the wall on the left-hand side before it for a handline. If you're willing to give it a big jump, you won't need a
rope. If not, it's most of the way into the cave anyway, so going as far as it will give you an excellent trip.

Hoping to join one of the Rose clubs this summer, although not sure what member reactions would be to a novice slowing them down 

If that is their attitude, you don't want to join them anyway. There are plenty of novice-friendly clubs, so if the first one you try doesn't turn out to be, try another.

Secondly, when we visited the Runscar area we got slightly confused as to which caves were which and hours of trawling the web hasn't yielded anything. We visited one somewhere near the middle and below the scar which had three separate active streamway sections (which I suspect is Thistle or Runscar), and one near the far West end of the scar which was just one ~100m through trip with only a trickle of a stream running through. We found Roger Kirk no problem. Can anyone enlighten me on what the other two are though?

Sounds like the first one is Runscar and the second one Thistle.

 

[smollett]

Do you have Northern caves 2 because if not that would be a very good guide to get with lots of suggestions in. Bernies used to sell it for ?10 and I'm sure it's still available. As for my suggestions, Illusion in Kingsdale would be good (care of mud formations), as would Notts 2 although it's now closed season on leck fell for 3 months so you would have to wait for that one. Wretched rabbit is also good with a lot of passage near the entrance to explore and miles more passage to visit once you get a bit more confident.

Another thing, clubs are always looking for new members and are all very friendly to newcomers. I'm sure you will be made welcome whichever club you choose!

James

 

[dunc]

Do a search in the Yorkshire section for easy / novice caves, that should produce a few lists..
But as a quick list:
Going to Dentdale and doing Ibbeth Peril makes for a good outing.

Up in the Great Douk area is Sunset Hole which you can follow down a couple of easy climbs (you could always take a sling or handline, depending on your abilities at climbing) and go as far as the pitch head. Similarly there is High Douk Holes which lead into Hardrawkin Pot where again you can stop at the pitch head.

Just outside Ingleton is Skirwith Cave which is a pleasant trip.

All the above are of course subject to the weather being respectable!

Hoping to join one of the Rose clubs this summer, although not sure what member reactions would be to a novice slowing them down

I doubt many (if any) clubs would have that kind of attitude, I think most are quite welcoming to newcomers - even the fastest cavers were novices once..

 

[Pitlamp]

. . . and the fastest cavers sometimes miss interesting things!

There are some good suggestions for caving trips above but some also have possible hazards. For example Ibbeth Peril is a fine cave but on the wrong day it can be a deathtrap. Definitely join a club!

 

[dunc]

. . . and the fastest cavers sometimes miss interesting things!

Indeed they do! Speed is not always a good thing..

There are some good suggestions for caving trips above but some also have possible hazards. For example Ibbeth Peril is a fine cave but on the wrong day it can be a deathtrap. Definitely join a club!

Very true. I don't know how much info 'snebbit' has but he has been in the Churns which can be potentially dangerous.. He suggested Birkwith which has a lovely warning in Northern Caves 2! Great Douk, Browgill, Old Ing, Sunset, Hardrawkin all carry streams and they can all become dodgy in wet weather. As Pitlamp says either join a club or do some research and ask before venturing in to these places.

 

[Skyrmy]

We have a trip organised to Hardrawkin on Saturday (whilst the lucky skinks are sampling the delights of Otter Hole!!!)  You're more than welcome to trot along to the pitch head if you want.  High Douk is right next door as well.

 

[beardedboy]

Secondly, when we visited the Runscar area we got slightly confused as to which caves were which and hours of trawling the web hasn't yielded anything. We visited one somewhere near the middle and below the scar which had three separate active streamway sections (which I suspect is Thistle or Runscar), and one near the far West end of the scar which was just one ~100m through trip with only a trickle of a stream running through. We found Roger Kirk no problem. Can anyone enlighten me on what the other two are though?

Here's a useful resource for finding those caves:

http://cavemaps.org/

 

[kay]

Secondly, when we visited the Runscar area we got slightly confused as to which caves were which and hours of trawling the web hasn't yielded anything. We visited one somewhere near the middle and below the scar which had three separate active streamway sections (which I suspect is Thistle or Runscar), and one near the far West end of the scar which was just one ~100m through trip with only a trickle of a stream running through. We found Roger Kirk no problem. Can anyone enlighten me on what the other two are though?

Sounds like the first one is Runscar and the second one Thistle.

Runscar and Thistle are both 'in bits' - one of them has 4 bits, the other 3, and I can never remember which is which. The one that disappears into surface boulders also has the entrance to Scar Top, which has a secondary entrance behind the scar - a cave well worth visiting.

As well as Roger Kirk, there's Roger Kirk West Sink which joins it. And there are quite a few other caves at Ribblehead - definitely get Northern Caves no 2.

Long Churns area has Borrins Moor, Birthday, Left Bank, Wilsons, Gillgarth etc. There are several worth looking at on the track from Chapel-le-Dale to Ribblehead - Bruntscar, Ivescar, Gatekirk etc. There's another nice one half way up Whernside (??Greensett??). Also Gunnerfleet just the other side of the Ribblehead viaduct, with pretty coloured formations once you've gone past the smelly slime of the entrance. Long Kin East up near Gaping Gill is good, but make sure you find the right hole! On top of the hill where Valley Entrance is there is Rowten and Jingling Caves.

... again, you need Northern Caves 2. And check the BCA site for access - many of the Ribblehead ones are free access, but others you have to ask permission (eg Gillgarth, Ivescar) or pay a small fee (Churns area, Birkwith area).

There's also a lot of info on here - try searching on terms like 'horizontal' 'novices' 'children', or just scan down in both the Yorkshire and the New to Caving sections. But don't do any of them unless you are aware of the risks and know what you are doing - a 'novice' cave is one that an experienced caver will happily take a novice into, not a cave that a novice should visit on his own.

Join a club sooner rather than later. You'll want to still carry on caving on your own, but spend some time with experienced cavers to start understanding the flood risks and other risks, and finding the sources of information for the particular dangers of each cave. A club will also give you access caves which aren't open to individuals, you'll be able to use their ropes etc, and a large club will also have a library with cave surveys and so on.

 

[dunc]

Runscar and Thistle are both 'in bits' - one of them has 4 bits, the other 3, and I can never remember which is which. The one that disappears into surface boulders also has the entrance to Scar Top, which has a secondary entrance behind the scar - a cave well worth visiting.

Thistle is 3 bits, Runscar is 4 and also has the entrance to Scar Top.

 

[knuckledragger]

Hi Snebbit.

You may be already familiar with this website but if not try cavemaps.org which has helped me locate several caves in the dales. I think it was put together by Cavemapper (who regularly use this forum) and a few other helpers. Personally I think its a triffic website and have spent hours on it. I spent a day caving around Ribblehead and then went home and zoomed in on all the caves I'd visited. Its also good for noting which cave entrances have trees around them, or are near walls. This has helped me identify quite a few entrances. Keep up the caving...

 

[barrabus]

Hoping to join one of the Rose clubs this summer, although not sure what member reactions would be to a novice slowing them down 

I'm sure 'one of the Rose clubs' would be happy to welcome a new member (even novices!), but if not you are more than welcome to come along on some Kendal Caving Club trips and see what you think of us. We do have at least 3 active members from Lancaster.

As for horizontal trips - have a look in Red Moss Pot or Smelt Mill Beck Cave (off the A66 near Brough).

 

[Goydenman]

Welcome to join us, the Black Sheep Diggers, in Nidderdale on Thursday evenings - no kit required other than personal. Alaways some folks bimbling around the system there and happy to show novices some of the delights of the Goyden system. If you keep apearing we will try and persuade you to dig so you have been warned

 

[snebbit]

smollett - I've got 'Selected caves of britain and ireland' which I got from Inglesport which has some fairly brief explanations of some of the best caves, but as for northern caves, all I have is the wharfedale/nidderdale one a relative gave me, which is a bit out of our way really (poor students so not much petrol). I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a copy of Northern Caves 2 off ebay or something. thanks!

knuckledragger - thanks for that, cavemaps is the exact thing I've been looking for for ages, all I've been using so far is MemoryMap to plot my own markers from grid references on the net.

skyrmy - I only got your reply this lunchtime by which time it's too late, damn me! I assume this was the brcc trip?

One final question, I was wondering whether many of the local clubs have SRT gear like harnesses to borrow or hire, or whether that's usually classed as personal kit? I'm hoping to get over to Inglesport climbing wall to familiarise myself sometime soon, and then hopefully move on to an SRT beginner's trip with a club.

 

[beardedboy]

It's probably cheaper to pick up northern caves 2 at Bernies, or i think Dalesware still has some, rather than getting it off ebay.

Also, as many people have already said, join a club. Most will be able to provide you with free training (and a venue, even if it is a tree) and let you borrow kit to learn with (inc. SRT kit).

It's a lot easier and quicker to learn SRT from someone who does it all the time rather than a book and they can give you helpful tips you can't find in books too. Also if someone from a club teaches you, they can take you caving knowing exactly what your skills are. This way you will be able to progress into caves using SRT a lot quicker.

 

[barrabus]

One final question, I was wondering whether many of the local clubs have SRT gear like harnesses to borrow or hire, or whether that's usually classed as personal kit? I'm hoping to get over to Inglesport climbing wall to familiarise myself sometime soon, and then hopefully move on to an SRT beginner's trip with a club.

I believe KCC has one or two SRT kits that can be lent to beginners until they decide whether they like it and want to buy their own. (I've got a spare kit anyway!)
We recently had an SRT training evening at Bendrigg Lodge (where they have built a climbing wall with a wheel chair friendly slab to abseil down(!) and an indoor cave!).

Any good club that encourages beginners and does plenty of SRT will be happy to 'show you the ropes' as nobody likes to hear about accidents, and definitely  doesn't want fellow club members falling down potholes besmirching the clubs good reputation. I did an SRT course when I first started caving - it was run by the National Caving Association - out of the ?100 cost (for six evenings, two of which were underground and a full day through trip from Lancs Hole to Pool Sink) KCC paid ?25, the Sports Council paid ?50 and I only had to pay ?25 - a bargain price! There was no pressure on me to join the club and it only took me 8 years to become active and actually join. Basically if you join a club and don't feel like your getting the tuition you need ask for more or go somewhere more welcoming.