Repairing oversuit?

[thehungrytroglobite]

My oversuit is in tatters and is in dire need of repair. It is barely a suit at this point but I am caving in Ardeche, Slovenia, Switzerland, France and possibly Austria too in the next 6 months... plus a month of hard Dales caving. I am determined to make my suit last until September, or even better until Christmas. Most of my friends think this is a futile effort and some even have bets on how long the suit will last (not very long). Feel free to join this bet if you so desire.
Please assist me in my mission to prove them all wrong.
First: mending method. My plan is to sew it with tough thread (any recommendations?) which will be challenging as I am not very good at sewing at all. Then I will use aquasure to seal it in place. Or should I do this the other way round?
Second: Fabric - should I get 1000d cordura or 1000d nylon. The nylon is £2 cheaper per metre, is it worth splashing the extra cash on the cordura? Is there any difference? I am hoping just a metre will be enough. I need to patch: the whole bum, the elbows, the side of one leg. I have a little AV fabric left too.
Thank you!

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Examples of the suit in question

 

[JoshW]

That suit is dead.

If you insist on continuing, the thread that is designed for speedy stitchers is strong.

Maybe cover the stitching with aquasure to protect it.

 

[Flotsam]

I repair sails and covers so have experience of this sort of repair.
The problem with stitching is that the old cloth might not hold the thread. Better option would be to use patches and spray adhesive, the type sold to do upholstery. Perhaps run a seam around the edge to stop it from lifting. Another glue that could be used is Stixall or similar.

 

[Ian Ball]

Good luck!

 

[Pitlamp]

If you stitch the tears there's a risk you'll use up a bit of material in each run of stitching. As there are mulitiple tears you risk altering the size of each panel significantly. At best that will then lead to a less than neat result; at worse the extra strain will lead to you quickly ending up back at square 1. So cover-patching (as suggested above) may well be better than trying to stitch all the ribbons back together.

I tend to agree with Josh that you're probably better off just buying a new suit (and I'm one who always advocates repairs rather than doing this!). However, not having seen the suit for real, I'm not certain of that.

I also agree that sealing stitching with Aquasure is a very good idea. Bear in mind that Aquasure is not a "glue" it's a "repair compound". Trying to butt-glue fabrics together with Aquasure is fraught with problems. If you really must try this, my strong advice is to hold both sides of the repair accurately in place by applying parcel tape on the opposite side. Then put Aquasure on. Once it's cured (up to 24 hours) then carefully peel off the parcel tape and apply Aquasure to the other side. But you may have to do each seam in stages as Aquasure WILL run off where you want it to be, if you can't get the whole seam being repaired absolutely flat. Get the fabric to be repaired as clean as possible first with a solvent cleaner, so the Aquasure keys on as well as possible.

Don't know if you visit the Dales much but there's a good shop in Bentham that sells all sorts of useful stuff for repairing outdoor gear. If you're local you might take the suit in and ask their advice. (It may be just to buy a new suit though.)

There is another option, which may help if you're not in a mad rush. Outdoor centres sometimes sell on used oversuits, which may need only cosmetic repairs, far cheaper than buying new. When Bernie's closed down as a caving base I bought a couple of their oversuits for £15 each. Had both completely fixed within one afternoon. So you might like to ask various outdoor centres etc if they have anything that may do for you.

But the best advice is still to buy a good quality new suit, as you'll probably enjoy your caving more. There is also the aspect of all of us supporting our (all too few) caving shops, which we're lucky to have in such a niche activity.

Good luck!

 

[JoshW]

Blimey if Pitlamp is saying the suit is a goner, it must be really gone

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

That suit is dead.

If you insist on continuing, the thread that is designed for speedy stitchers is strong.

Maybe cover the stitching with aquasure to protect it.

The suit is not dead josh! No room for pessimism here!

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

I repair sails and covers so have experience of this sort of repair.
The problem with stitching is that the old cloth might not hold the thread. Better option would be to use patches and spray adhesive, the type sold to do upholstery. Perhaps run a seam around the edge to stop it from lifting. Another glue that could be used is Stixall or similar.

Thank you, are there any spray adhesives you recommend?

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

If you stitch the tears there's a risk you'll use up a bit of material in each run of stitching. As there are mulitiple tears you risk altering the size of each panel significantly. At best that will then lead to a less than neat result; at worse the extra strain will lead to you quickly ending up back at square 1. So cover-patching (as suggested above) may well be better than trying to stitch all the ribbons back together.

I tend to agree with Josh that you're probably better off just buying a new suit (and I'm one who always advocates repairs rather than doing this!). However, not having seen the suit for real, I'm not certain of that.

I also agree that sealing stitching with Aquasure is a very good idea. Bear in mind that Aquasure is not a "glue" it's a "repair compound". Trying to butt-glue fabrics together with Aquasure is fraught with problems. If you really must try this, my strong advice is to hold both sides of the repair accurately in place by applying parcel tape on the opposite side. Then put Aquasure on. Once it's cured (up to 24 hours) then carefully peel off the parcel tape and apply Aquasure to the other side. But you may have to do each seam in stages as Aquasure WILL run off where you want it to be, if you can't get the whole seam being repaired absolutely flat. Get the fabric to be repaired as clean as possible first with a solvent cleaner, so the Aquasure keys on as well as possible.

Don't know if you visit the Dales much but there's a good shop in Bentham that sells all sorts of useful stuff for repairing outdoor gear. If you're local you might take the suit in and ask their advice. (It may be just to buy a new suit though.)

There is another option, which may help if you're not in a mad rush. Outdoor centres sometimes sell on used oversuits, which may need only cosmetic repairs, far cheaper than buying new. When Bernie's closed down as a caving base I bought a couple of their oversuits for £15 each. Had both completely fixed within one afternoon. So you might like to ask various outdoor centres etc if they have anything that may do for you.

But the best advice is still to buy a good quality new suit, as you'll probably enjoy your caving more. There is also the aspect of all of us supporting our (all too few) caving shops, which we're lucky to have in such a niche activity.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your advice pitlamp. I was under the impression that aquasure was a glue! And didn't know anything about it running off either. I am pass by Bentham very frequently so I will check out that shop.
For those suggesting I buy a new suit. I will not be buying a new suit for several reasons. The first is that I am a poor student with no income and simply cannot afford a new one. The second is that there is still life left in the suit; albeit not much; and I am now trying to prolong that life as best as I can. I am one of those people that uses scissors to cut a toothpaste tube out to ensure every last bit is used before buying a new tube. The final reason is that I am stubborn and find the whole situation hilarious. The more people tell me it is dead the more I am determined it is not. My suit and I are one; its tattered nature a metaphor for my life.
I have only had my suit for 3 years - and a year of that was spent in lockdown, so only 2 years really. So I feel like it should last longer. But I don't know how long suits are meant to last? I've done about 70 caving trips since I got it, mostly yorkshire classics so I am not sure it should be this tattered as I don't dabble in mendip nonsense. Though I do have a taste for refined thrutches which I suppose may add to wear and tear.
Buying a new suit is not currently an option for me - though by christmas time I may have the finances to do so, hence wanting to make it last until then. If I don't repair it I will keep on caving with my current one. I am very happy with my current suit and would not mind caving with it. The only discomfort is when what used to be the bum patch gets caught on a rock and I am left hanging in mid air, but this can be remedied by cutting the flap and putting a new patch on top. I am very happy to have a suit that is 80% patchwork, I simply need to find the strongest way to patch it. As patching it will probably cost about £30 I will do it once, the second time I will have to buy a new one because it won't be economical to keep repairing it. I will try repairing it and inevitably give in when the repairs fail

 

[Flotsam]

Thank you, are there any spray adhesives you recommend?

I've used Bostik and another no-name brand which seemed much the same type of thing. I've seen upholstery spray glue sold at pound shops, Home Bargains etc. It will also be sold at motor factors.

 

[pwhole]

I rang Dennis Jump's business number recently about getting a repair done but it didn't connect - does anyone know if he's stopped repairing/trading? The website's still up.

 

[LadyMud]

I am one of those people that uses scissors to cut a toothpaste tube out to ensure every last bit is used before buying a new tube.

Maybe you could glue on all those empty toothpaste tubes?

 

[Steve Clark]

I reckon you cut off all the black 2nd reinforcing layer stuff and just accept that when the blue/green stuff underneath is shot, the suit is totally shot. That should generate some material to patch the split seams.

For membrane drysuits we use Bostick 2402 two-part glue. You need to mix a batch of glue so get everything clean and prepared before you go for it. You can get it from Lomo.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

I reckon you cut off all the black 2nd reinforcing layer stuff and just accept that when the blue/green stuff underneath is shot, the suit is totally shot. That should generate some material to patch the split seams.

For membrane drysuits we use Bostick 2402 two-part glue. You need to mix a batch of glue so get everything clean and prepared before you go for it. You can get it from Lomo.

A great idea for reusing the material. Yeah, when the green bum layer goes I think I'll finally accept it is dead

 

[Pitlamp]

Blimey if Pitlamp is saying the suit is a goner, it must be really gone

I don't know what you mean . . .

 

[owd git]

I rang Dennis Jump's business number recently about getting a repair done but it didn't connect - does anyone know if he's stopped repairing/trading? The website's still up.

yes ,sadly Phil' a while ago. how big a repair? a retired seamstress near me might be able to take it on.Also I have call to visit harrisons cameras soon could collect. Ric'.

 

[ChrisB]

As above, Aquasure is a sealant not a glue, but you can use it as a glue if you know how. There are two differences from a glue (1) although it looks and appears very sticky, it doesn't hold the surfaces together while it sets, and (2) it doesn't set unless exposed to air.

I wouldn't recommend trying to make a butt joint, that is, laying two bits of fabric edge to edge and bridging over them with Aquasure; better to use a strip of fabric over the join and use Aquasure to glue it down.

The way to do it is to apply a thin layer of Aquasure to both surfaces, and leave them open to the air for 20-30 minutes. That's enough to start the curing process. Then put them together and put a weight on the joint, something like a stack of books or magazines. The problem then is that any trace of Aquasure that oozes out from under the edge will stick to the books. To avoid this, lay electrician's insulating tape over all the edges. This helps hold things in place, but most importantly, any escaping Aquasure sticks to the glue layer on the tape. This glue is designed to pull apart! So leave it 24 hours, lift off the weight and carefully peel off the insulating tape. 24 hours should be enough, but since the tape excludes air, the Aquasure may set slowly, so if it doesn't seem to be sticking well, leave it a bit longer.

I've used this method to make drybags (no sewing, just Aquasure) and the seams are completed watertight and very strong.

Finally, to avoid any Aquasure that's left setting in the tube, remove the cap, carefully wipe the cap and the nozzle, replace the cap and put it in the freezer (not the fridge). When you need it, just take it out 30 minutes before. Freezing doesn't do it any harm.

 

[Pitlamp]

Some very good advice there Chris B, especially about using weights. Patches can be effectively applied to PVC oversuits and tacklebags using Aquasure in this way.

I still think the O.P. would be better off sourcing a (cheap) S/H replacement though, rather than investing money in that shredded item.

 

[andrewmcleod]

So...

Firstly, 3 years is pretty good going for an oversuit for me! Mine tend to last about a year or two at most (and that's after lots of coating the bum seams with Aquasure before first using it)...

Secondly the Mendips might be muddy but it's generally smoother than hard sharp snaggy Yorkshire tight stuff!

I, like you, find that the black reinforcement material just fails eventually (not unreasonable, given the abuse) leaving most of the suit still intact just unprotected (except for a few failing seams).

As someone who has sewn a totally new patch of fabric onto the bum of an oversuit (not enormously successfully), I have some recommendations.

Firstly, I had more success sewing three smaller patches on rather than one massive patch. The problem is that it's very hard to avoid making it too tight - after the first suit attempt, it became rather snug in the rear, despite my attempts to avoid this...

Secondly, don't bother trying to sew anything within 5cm of failed fabric. In fact I'd cut off all the loose black fabric entirely - it's dead. You need to go well away from the wear points, as otherwise you will just get new tears in the fabric.

Thirdly, eBay 1000 denier fabric is just not as good as the original AV fabric. If you have kept the spare patches of material you get with AV suits (and you should) or can acquire some, this stuff is, I find, better.

Fourthly, you could (at one point) buy a 250ml tube of Aquasure on eBay for about £25

So if you've got a failed seam, you need to make a big patch (bigger than you want) and sew it on. The sewing can be hideous; this is fine. Most of this, if you aren't sewing through a seam, can be done with an ordinary (but robust) needle using a good thimble. It doesn't have to be pretty, because you are going to soak the seams in Aquasure anyway.

Where the material has failed, you are going to need a large patch or patches, pin it all in place, then stitch it on, then glue the new seams.

I have managed to glue patches on with Aquasure when I was too lazy to sew them/couldn't stitch through the whole material; I coated the entire patch back with glue and stuck it on, then once dry glued over the edges. This is probably not the best method though. I used a similar method to ChrisB (with insulating tape and weights).

I suspect I would have been better off doing some overtime for the day or so I was faffing around with this over several days and just buying a new suit...

Have fun

PS I have started coating my suit elbows in Aquasure as well, as these seem to wear through eventually.