Route Marking

[Peter Burgess]

Cap'n Chris started a topic on an arrow in the moonmilk in Pierre's Pot, and it made me wonder what people's thoughts are on route marking in general.

Here are some ideas to start with.

Permanent marking - definitely out of order, except perhaps in one or two exceptional cases. For example, the reflective tabs in OFD streamway which (I think) mark escape points for flood conditions.

Temporary markings - plastic pointers, for example - OK up to a point, but how many times have you come across these when clearly there is nobody else underground other than your party? Are these from people who left them behind for another day, couldn't be bothered to pick up their mess, or perhaps were doing a round trip and weren't bothered about leaving litter behind as the round trip was more important than clearing up afterwards? Are cairns of rocks any better?

And even when I find temporary markers, or cairns, it still niggles me a bit.

Perhaps, having spent decades learning my way round places without using markers, I wonder why other people can't do the same. On the very very rare occasion I have used markers, I have ALWAYS picked them up again the same day.

And what about the concept of never exploring underground to a point beyond your limits? Should this apply to more than just your physical capabilities? Do you learn the layout of a cave better by committing routes to memory, by not using route markers, and never going beyond the point where you can remember your way back again?

 

[darkplaces]

I hate some route markers the platpot markers favoured are annoying as people dont pick them up. Natrual route markers are ok, as long as they are positioned correctly so you dont trip up on them.

String in box is getting stupid and dangerous, I have removed huge amounts of string used by people to navigate. Box walls are covered in arrows so its not hard to navigate in box, the surveys are publicly accessable locally via the pub so no excuse in my view.

I learn places though repeated visits and starting with a survey I build up using the normal major pathways and make a little route from interesting point to point. making the effort to look behind me, such a obvious point people forget. As long as people dont rushing though I tend to be able to learn places fairly well. I like to stand about and just look

I am happy to explore past my limit as I feel experianced now in some types of locations.

 

[dunc]

Are cairns of rocks any better?
And even when I find temporary markers, or cairns, it still niggles me a bit.

Agreed.. but given the choice of plastic, string, arrows or cairns then it has to be cairns - at least they can be removed quickly and easily without any noticable impact..

It wouldn't be so bad but half the markers out there are in places that are easy to find your way out of or they have obvious natural markers to help you along your way! Its not like its that hard to remember your way out at a junction or two that you passed a few hours back.. But I guess some people are lazy and can't bothered to remember things so thus use markers and then leave them in place. :roll:

 

[paul]

But I guess some people are lazy and can't bothered to remember things so thus use markers and then leave them in place. :roll:

Hit the nail on the head!

 

[kay]

I learn places though repeated visits and starting with a survey I build up using the normal major pathways and make a little route from interesting point to point. making the effort to look behind me, such a obvious point people forget. As long as people dont rushing though I tend to be able to learn places fairly well. I like to stand about and just look

That's one of the problems - a lot of people don't like to stand about and just look - they want to get somewhere in particular, get to the end of the cave, or whatever. And in that situation it is arguably better to use some sort of waymarking, even if occasionally you miss picking one up, than getting yourself hopelessly lost and having a call out.

Before you get the wrong impression, I don't use waymarks, I'm one of the "stand about and look" school, and try to impress backward views of junctions on my mind, and look for landmarks, and carry a survey, and generally go completely ott for the sorts of caves I go in :wink:

I am happy to explore past my limit as I feel experianced now in some types of locations.

You can't learn any new cave unless you explore past your previous limit
:wink:

 

[RM]

Personally Im not in favour of un natural markings, but rock walls and cairns seem fine to me. Ideally people should learn all routes slowly, but we all know we dont. This summer me and some others from SUSS did the Dent de croll through trip P40 to the resurgance. We did the resurgance stuff first, but its fair to say without the well placed walls and markers in their we may have had a serious epic. Therefore despite what people say, if its a choice between safety and litter there is no contest. Though you can do pretty much everything with cairns