• Overground/underground - a caving archaeology project in the Yorkshire Dales

    1st June 2-4pm at Dales Countryside Museum in Hawes.

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The Dump

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Riftpotter

New member
A rowdy night at the BPC.

I’m not a grumpy old person just old but the BPC at weekend certainly lived up to its name as “The Dump”

I stayed there with a long time member and was totally disgusted with the behaviour and attitudes of the children staying there, I say children but the majority were young adults that should have known better.

We’ve all been young but the lack of respect for others and the facility was appalling.

Maybe I’m too old to stay in a caving club hut and should treat myself to a bit of luxury to ensure a full nights sleep.

I hope the powers that be look into this.

Frank
 

Misbecaving

Well-known member
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Frank's Friend

New member
A rowdy night at the BPC.

I’m not a grumpy old person just old but the BPC at weekend certainly lived up to its name as “The Dump”

I stayed there with a long time member and was totally disgusted with the behaviour and attitudes of the children staying there, I say children but the majority were young adults that should have known better.

We’ve all been young but the lack of respect for others and the facility was appalling.

Maybe I’m too old to stay in a caving club hut and should treat myself to a bit of luxury to ensure a full nights sleep.

I hope the powers that be look into this.

Frank

I've never seen this man before in my life.
 

braveduck

Active member
A rowdy night at the BPC.

I’m not a grumpy old person just old but the BPC at weekend certainly lived up to its name as “The Dump”

I stayed there with a long time member and was totally disgusted with the behaviour and attitudes of the children staying there, I say children but the majority were young adults that should have known better.

We’ve all been young but the lack of respect for others and the facility was appalling.

Maybe I’m too old to stay in a caving club hut and should treat myself to a bit of luxury to ensure a full nights sleep.

I hope the powers that be look into this.

Frank
This is not the place to make a complaint like that . There are procedures within the club to deal with such matters !
 

Danielle

New member
A rowdy night at the BPC.

I’m not a grumpy old person just old but the BPC at weekend certainly lived up to its name as “The Dump”

I stayed there with a long time member and was totally disgusted with the behaviour and attitudes of the children staying there, I say children but the majority were young adults that should have known better.

We’ve all been young but the lack of respect for others and the facility was appalling.

Maybe I’m too old to stay in a caving club hut and should treat myself to a bit of luxury to ensure a full nights sleep.

I hope the powers that be look into this.

Frank
I was staying at the TSG last weekend. There a group of 16 students who stayed up well past 3am on both nights. This sort of thing happens in caving huts and is quite normal.
You'd better never stay at the BEC or RR.
 

Woody155

New member
I was staying at the TSG last weekend. There a group of 16 students who stayed up well past 3am on both nights. This sort of thing happens in caving huts and is quite normal.
You'd better never stay at the BEC or RR.
It’s called respect. Crack on and party by all means. However if keeping people awake that’s just rude. You would think most people are wanting to go caving! Not just talk about it drinking.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
One thing that intrigues me about Danielle's post is that she was staying at the TSG, but feels competent to comment on what happened about 90 miles away at the BPC.

How on Earth do you know what happened at the BPC, and what gives you the right to comment on it, Danielle?
 

A_Northerner

Active member
Speaking as a BPC member, I'm fairly sure it went out on various club communiques that there would be a joint birthday party hosted by the younger members of the club at the hut this weekend. I was aware of this, and I don't exactly read club emails religiously so it was well communicated to those with half an ear open.

It's not unusual for club huts across the country to be used this way, and a week or two warning is plenty of courtesy. If I hadn't had the Annual Dinner of one of my other clubs, I might have been there myself!

I invite Riftpotter to join the BPC on one of their more sedate weekends - usually good to aim for the weekend AFTER a big get-together 😉, the booking calendar is easily and publicly accessible to plan for this. Unless strong blue cheese and a snifter of port after an early evening nap seems a bit too rowdy.
 

A_Northerner

Active member
One thing that intrigues me about Danielle's post is that she was staying at the TSG, but feels competent to comment on what happened about 90 miles away at the BPC.

How on Earth do you know what happened at the BPC, and what gives you the right to comment on it, Danielle?
The Internet can be used to communicate things over distances exceeding 90 miles these days, and in real time!

And I'd say that Riftpotter posting this thread on a public discussion forum implicitly gives Danielle the right to comment on it.
 

thehungrytroglobite

Well-known member
I didn't want to say anything here because I would rather have dealt with this matter privately, but since the topic keeps popping up & being added to, it seems only fair that I provide further information (in a sense, 'our side of the story'). People will have different opinions, which is to be expected and is part of the wonderful diversity of human nature. But at least this way people can be better informed when constructing those opinions.

I am one of the two young BPC members whose party was hosted at the Dump on Saturday night. We anticipated that it would be a fairly busy occasion so as a_northerner mentioned we shared the information amongst members in advance, warning that it might be a rowdy weekend at the dump. This way they could make their own decision on whether to come or not. I don't go to the Dump on the family weekend, because I don't like being around screaming children - I respect that that is my personal preference and I think the family weekend is a very valuable and rewarding occasion for those involved. I just choose, personally, not to be involved. We booked it for this weekend in particular because the meet was in Derbyshire, and no one else was booked into the hut, so anticipated it being empty and tried to avoid inconveniencing anyone as best as we could.

For the following I will refer to 'members' as the members who were not part of the party, because that is the easiest form of reference, but in truth 9 of the 'party' were actually members of the BPC (there were more BPC members partaking in the party than there were *not* partaking in it). I also note that the original poster, Frank, is not on the sign in sheet so it is either a code name or Frank did not sign in and pay hut fees. But hey, none of us are perfect.

Friday was indeed rowdy and quite loud, which I accept may have been distressing for anyone hoping for an early night and I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience caused. On Saturday, we offered the studio (a separate building in the garden, away from the main hut, that we had booked out) to the members staying. This would have enabled them to sleep in a separate building to the party where it would have been much quieter, but they declined the offer. As it happens, the Saturday night was much less rowdy than the Friday night, because we listened to the members' complaints from the previous night and took these on board. In fact the members stayed up chatting in the living room long after I went to bed.

The weekend was not all riddled with conflict, as the original post may make it seem to be. One of the members had a great time caving with several of our party guests on Saturday, another member thoroughly enjoyed chatting to all the guests on Saturday eve, one of our guests helped the members digging a trench during the day as part of their work on the dump, we shared our cake with the members staying, etc etc.

The weekend was no more rowdy than Bullpot Farm at New Year, or any caving hut on a celebratory occasion. Sometimes younger cavers get a bad rep for partying (how dare young people have fun!) but please remember that we also contribute to the caving community in many ways. Many guests of the party are regular contributors to this forum, many were active members of cave rescue teams across the country, and many have been presidents of student caving club committees in recent years, helping to train up the next generation of cavers and ensure the sport thrives. Two participants were on CNCC committee and several on CHECC committee. All of us care deeply about the caving community and many actively give up our free time to contribute to it. To belittle us as 'children' (when you know we are not) feels unnecessarily demeaning.

Unfortunately, a good party every now and then is an inevitability where young people are involved. If we want to maintain the young demographic within caving, we have to also accept what it means to be young. To be energetic, enthusiastic, dedicated, and also to make mistakes. That isn't to suggest there should be parties all the time, but an occasional celebration is hardly a crime - especially if adequate notice is given in advance, the hut is cleaned afterwards, etc. I would argue that some of the older members there also showed a lack of respect through incidents of transphobia, sexism, and aggression, which I am not going to go into detail about because I don't think a public forum is the right place to do so. That sort of thing would never be tolerated in our group, where we believe in accepting everyone and embracing all forms of identity. It does make one wonder if we were really the ones showing a 'lack of respect'. I am proud to have such an wonderful group of friends, and grateful that at my young age I have found a community of like-minded individuals who will laugh with me, cry with me and support me until the end.

The BPC has a thriving number of young cavers at the moment who will help to uphold the club for a very long time into the future. During a trip to South Wales a few weeks ago I overheard someone saying the BPC was the 'most fun club in the Dales' (I controversial statement, I know) but I think that sort of thing demonstrates how it is appreciated by young people. That's not to exclude the older cavers - one of my favourite BPC members is about 60 years older than me and could easily drink me under the table in the ale tent. The support of many older and more experienced BPC members as I navigate my 20s has been invaluable, but none of them have ever tried to stop me from partying and having fun (if anything, they've encouraged it).

The weekend brought almost £400 to the club. The hut was tidied afterwards, floors mopped, surfaces cleaned, which I don't think shows a 'lack of respect for the facility'. I am happy to be corrected if I've missed the mark here. Likewise, I am happy to accept that we are all in different stages of life, with different perspectives, experiences, and priorities. I have provided the above information as it felt unfair to watch people forming conclusions having only heard one side of the story (and really, I would have preferred to have kept this all private). However, I don't think anyone is in the 'right' or 'wrong'. We are all just here, sharing this beautiful earth together and trying to muddle our way through this strange thing we call life, loving & sometimes annoying each other as we go.
 

Danielle

New member
It’s called respect. Crack on and party by all means. However if keeping people awake that’s just rude. You would think most people are wanting to go caving! Not just talk about it d
One thing that intrigues me about Danielle's post is that she was staying at the TSG, but feels competent to comment on what happened about 90 miles away at the BPC.

How on Earth do you know what happened at the BPC, and what gives you the right to comment on it, Danielle?
I don't and its not a comment about the specific happenings. It's an observation about the tone of the original comment from someone who failed to realise, or has forgotten, that this sort of thing happens regularly at caving huts.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
Morning Danielle, you actually said 'This sort of thing happens in caving huts and is quite normal.', which implies, to me at least, that you know what happened at the BPC. Obviously A_Northerner is right when he/she says: 'The Internet can be used to communicate things over distances exceeding 90 miles these days, and in real time!'. The point I was trying to make was that from the information given on this thread, no-one except those who were there could have deduced what actually happened.

Anyway, I fully accept what you say and apologise for any offence caused – to you or anybody else . . . can we draw a line under this now?
 
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