(Winnats head) The wood above the slot in Winnats is snapping, and the slot SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED! A warning to all!

[Winnat's Caver]

'The slot' below fox chamber in Winnats is directly below a boulder choke that has been widened by pieces of wood. Much has been said about the safety risks this poses should a piece of wood snap. We were rather alarmed today to find that one of the critical pieces of wood was more bent than usual, and early signs of snapping could be seen on it. We left the cave, and returned with a phone to take these pictures, and alarmingly the snapping had got visibly worse! I urge everyone to avoid anything below Fox chamber for their own safety.

 

[A_Northerner]

When Winnat’s Caver is telling you not to do Winnat’s, you know some serious shit has gone down.

 

[vig07]

i was also very alarmed at this highly alarming discovery

 

[Pitlamp]

Get some chunky steel in there before it moves any more.

Meanwhile it's worth trying to sprag the failing section against something solid on the left. This may prevent further movement and allow remedial work to be done before the lot collapses.

Probably summat for DCA to turn its attention to . . . . ?

 

[bograt]

Its about 40 years since Ben put it in, not bad for a bit of second hand timber!

 

[pwhole]

My personal opinion is that whatever work is done, this squeeze should be enlarged, despite it perhaps reducing the 'sporting' nature of the trip. My last trip beyond there was my last trip beyond there - I resolved that I wasn't attempting this squeeze again, no matter what. Not because of the issue of slippage, but because it's too bloody tight for anyone other than skinny or small people, is positively frightening to pass as a result and is a serious impediment to any serious rescue. It would be blasted out then, and nobody would complain.

As a member of the DCA repairs team I'm happy to implement whatever the majority think (if it's us that's doing it), but simply replacing that bit of wood with a bit of scaff would not really be a suitable upgrade. The cave beyond is far too important to lose, and more cavers should be able to visit it - and have a hope of getting out again. I've seen too many purple bulging faces (including mine) of folks trying to get back out.

 

[wellyjen]

No one has asked the really important question yet. Shouldn't the red bucket be replaced too?

 

[Pitlamp]

I don't think a solitary bit of scaff would be the answer in that situation pwhole. The point force from the boulder would soon bend it. If scaff were to be used it'd need something more substantial building up, with supports.

If a single support were to be used then it's probably need a small RSJ or some 75 mm angle iron.

I suspect Phil's right though, it would benefit from modification, if only to create more room to do a proper job with supporting scaff.

 

[Pete K]

I've popped a link to this thread on the DCA Facebook page. Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention

Probably summat for DCA to turn its attention to . . . . ?

As DCA Projects Officer I can say that this can't really be taken on as a DCA organised job. Shoring up an old caver's dig in a boulder choke is beyond what can be reasonably expected from our small team of already very busy volunteers. I'm sure that we can offer material support to any interested parties with the right skills to do a proper fix who are willing to organise the work though. Please feel free to drop me a message or email via the DCA website.

 

[braveduck]

I don't think a solitary bit of scaff would be the answer in that situation pwhole. The point force from the boulder would soon bend it. If scaff were to be used it'd need something more substantial building up, with supports.

If a single support were to be used then it's probably need a small RSJ or some 75 mm angle iron.

I suspect Phil's right though, it would benefit from modification, if only to create more room to do a proper job with supporting scaff.

I wonder if the Buxton Earthquake has been responsible ?!!!!!!!!!

 

[FabianE]

Personally I hate the Sewer aspect of WHC the most, yet the pitches beyond keep being me back 🤣

That pitch is a bit of a B*tch (not JH related) and does require brute force in the upper body as well as jamming your feet into any possible crack or protrusion available...
Having that particular section widened I agree may entice more cavers into this fantastic system.
It may also make a rescue beyond that every so small bit more possible although still very difficult.

Big challenge for someone who is willing to undertake it 👍

 

[mrodoc]

You need the Old Ruminator. This is the sort of thing he loves doing - playing in boulders with scaffolding.

 

[braveduck]

Get some Superglue in that crack ,moisture helps to set it quickly .May help until the real repair is done !

 

[Pitlamp]

You need the Old Ruminator. This is the sort of thing he loves doing - playing in boulders with scaffolding.

He's an experienced diver, isn't he? Pity we never roped him in when the Malham Cove project was in full swing. Then it might have taken less than 20 years to get through the bad ground!

 

[mrodoc]

He would have been perfect for Malham as he seems to be indestructible. The only person who seems to have survived a fast ascent from 60m without harm (amongst other epics that would make your hair stand on end).

 

[Mrs Trellis]

Get some Superglue in that crack ,moisture helps to set it quickly .May help until the real repair is done !

I'd use Gorilla glue where it's wet.

 

[benshannon]

Personally i love that squeeze. it will be a sad day when it gets widened.