Author Topic: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group  (Read 2215 times)

Offline sambo

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The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« on: January 13, 2019, 12:25:41 am »
Hi all. I hope this is the right place to post this topic, if not please accept my apologies.

I've taken a bit of time off caving recently to focus my efforts on exploring the lead mines on Grassington Moor alongside my good friend John Helm. Since mid 2017, we have been exploring the numerous open shafts throughout Grassington Moor and have documented our exploration on our Facebook group the Grassington Mines Appreciation Group. Our findings have been fascinating and some of the mines we have explored have not been visited since they shut in around the 1840's. This is proven by the fact that the passages are filled with clog marks which haven't been disturbed.

Throughout or exploratory work, I have uploaded numerous videos and images to the Facebook group. If anybody would be interested in viewing these, then just request to join the Grassington Mines Appreciation Group and I will add you.


Sam

Offline Jon

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 11:09:16 am »
Requested.

Offline mch

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 12:28:10 pm »
Hi all. I hope this is the right place to post this topic, if not please accept my apologies.

Might be worth you posting this on AditNow as well as that is more mine-oriented.

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 02:57:57 pm »
Thanks mch I’ve just posted.

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 03:11:31 pm »
Yes please :-)
Request sent

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 05:01:40 pm »

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 09:12:34 pm »
We need to stabilise the brickwork at the bottom of the collar for the main shaft of Chatsworth Mine. My plan is to use cement to hold the brickwork together by pushing it in between the bricks.

The collar only sinks about 6 metres before meeting solid rock and we would need to reinforce probably the last 1 metre.

Does anyone have any experience of doing this and can provide tips on the best way to do it. Also would normal cement be ok, or do we need to use a special type.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2019, 09:35:03 pm »
Could you reinforce it with fibreglass rings, slit vertically, then compressed with a big ratchet strap before being secured with a bolt & nut (& the trap removed) for lowering down? Once a ring's in position the nut's removed, the bolt hammered out and the ring springs open again. It then needs securing to whatever's on the outside of it. Something along these lines proved very effective when the surface shaft was sunk to connect with Titan on Castleton Moor.

By the way, a lot of people avoid Facebook, for very good reasons. It would be far better if you could publish your work properly, making it accessible to all.


Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2019, 09:42:25 pm »
That’s a great idea however it sounds quite expensive considering the shaft is around 6ft in diameter. We don’t have any funding for this work and so any expense comes out of mine or Johns pocket.

In time I intend to publish the work properly but I feel at the moment, there’s not a lot to show. I’d like to wait until we’ve explored fully and created surveys before fully publishing the work. Facebook provides an easy way of uploading the photos and videos from our trips, and allows people to comment and give advice or ask questions relating to the mines. It’s also a nice way to view feedback to see if people are actually interested.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2019, 09:58:42 pm »
That all sounds fair enough.

People will certainly be interested and it's a bit frustrating not being able to follow this.

There's a lot of expertise in this sort of thing in Derbyshire. You might find it worth getting in touch with the Peak District Mines Historical Society as some of their members are very good at sorting the kind of problem you describe. I'm sure they'd be able to give you worthwhile advice.

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2019, 10:19:19 pm »
Thanks for the advice, I’ll certainly follow up with them.

Sam

Offline AR

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 08:39:43 pm »
Doing anything with shaft ginging, particularly a large engine shaft is not something you undertake lightly - my first question would be what's making you think that stabilisation work will be necessary? Secondly, is the bottom layer set onto the bedrock or is it sat on timbers? Thirdly, is there drainage coming through the ginging at the moment and would this be changed if it was mortared up?

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss this publicly.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2019, 01:17:25 pm »
The bottom of the collar just fits into solid rock rather than being sat on timbers which is fortunate. However some of the bricks near the bottom are unstable and some have fallen out. I am concerned that any further instability may make the whole collar unstable and there is also the risk of a brick dislodging as we are descending or ascending. The collar only drops down to a depth of 6 metres and there is no water coming through at that level.

It looks like we should be getting help from one of the guys who has joined the Facebook group. He has experience of this and has been talking about using a gun injector using cement based grout and and an SBR latex additive (whatever that is).

Sam

Offline AR

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2019, 08:33:54 pm »
There's another complication with Grassington Moor which is the mines are a Scheduled Monument (see https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1018333 ) which means you need to apply for monument consent through Historic England prior to doing anything; it's a criminal offence to carry out works on a designated site without having that consent. Although you can make a good case for stabilisation of shaft ginging as a means of preserving it, HE will quite likely insist on use of lime mortar with no additives. I don't know what the general attitude of the Yorkshire area staff is like but I've dealt with the East Midlands office a fair bit and I would be very surprised if they were OK about me using cement-based mortar on a shaft in the Peak. I would suggest contacting the HE office that covers Grassington (probably York) and discuss what you want to do with them.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2019, 12:01:38 am »
Finally the moment you've all been waiting for. The website for the Grassington Mines Appreciation Group is now live! After hours upon hours of work, the website provides visitors with an easy way of exploring the mines through videos, pictures and descriptions. Please have a look at the website, tell us what you think and if you decide to read the blog, leave a comment.

www.grassingtonmines.com

Oh and AR in answer to your last post, I sent an informal email to Historic England and we are in the process of submitting a formal Scheduled Monument Consent request to them at the moment. 

Sam

Offline traff

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2019, 07:18:22 am »
Great work. Just like to point out preservation has been spelt wrong on the menu.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2019, 09:07:44 am »
Well done - this is of immense value.  :thumbsup:

Offline moorebooks

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2019, 04:52:22 pm »
Finally the moment you've all been waiting for. The website for the Grassington Mines Appreciation Group is now live! After hours upon hours of work, the website provides visitors with an easy way of exploring the mines through videos, pictures and descriptions. Please have a look at the website, tell us what you think and if you decide to read the blog, leave a comment.

www.grassingtonmines.com

Oh and AR in answer to your last post, I sent an informal email to Historic England and we are in the process of submitting a formal Scheduled Monument Consent request to them at the moment. 

Sam

I have sent a PM to your admin address on the website where you might be able to get some funding fro a couple of underground groups which might possibly help

Mike

Offline Goydenman

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 07:24:28 pm »
GREAT website Sam...well done

Offline AR

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2019, 08:56:55 pm »
Well done for getting the site up and I hope things go smoothly with HE around permissions. Grassington Moor was a favourite stomping ground of mine when I lived in West Yorkshire but the poor state of capping on some of the shafts was a concern to me then; I'm surprised (though glad) that there hasn't been a serious accident up there in recent years. Ideally, the extant shafts could do with the wooden sleepers replacing with concrete ones but the issue would be getting someone to fund that. I've also recollection of seeing a climbing shaft on the moor that was "capped" with rocks piled onto an old iron bedhead....
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2019, 10:29:08 pm »
Cheers for the responses guys and You’ll be glad to know I’ve corrected a couple of spelling mistakes although I’m sure there are many more!

AR do you remember where the shaft was that you mentioned about it being capped with a metal bed head and rocks.
 
Yes I’m very surprised there hasn’t been more incidents. From that I’ve read, there have only been 3 in which UWFRA has had to get involved. 2 were animal rescues and the other was body recovery.

Sam

Offline AR

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2019, 08:38:01 pm »
I've a vague recollection that it was somewhere in the vicinity of Nelson's level but I wouldn't swear to that, it's about 15 years ago I came across it. I also seem to remember that Glory Shaft was capped with wooden sleepers that were overgrown with turf, is that still the case or am I thinking of a different shaft?

Slightly further up Wharfedale, I remember there was another badly-capped shaft in the workings on the north side of Mossdale Beck, is that still open?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2019, 10:07:02 pm »
Apologies for the late reply.

I think the shaft you are talking about is either Chatsworth or an unnamed shaft near to Chatsworth. Both are only a short distance to the West of Glory. Videos and pictures of us descending them are on the website.

In regards to the other shaft you mentioned, I am not sure as we haven’t really looked act anything not on Grassington Moor. Having said that I’ve just found a very small uncapped shaft above Kilnsey: it’s about 10 metres deep.
 

Offline AR

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2019, 08:44:01 pm »
I'm dredging up 15+ year old memories here, so I can't guarantee any accuracy!

The Mossdale shaft was, IIRC, among the large hillocks due north of Mossdale Scar and not far from the track - in Derbyshire it would have been fitted with concrete sleepers by the county council long since!
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline sambo

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Re: The Grassington Mines Appreciation Group
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2019, 10:08:25 pm »
It's finally here!

Official membership to the Grassington Mines Appreciation Group is now open.

If you'd like to get involved in some of the group's activities or just want to keep informed with updates and information about our progress, then why not become an official member

Membership is free and it's as simple as logging onto the website and creating a user account. From there you will join the mailing list and will have access to the forum. Joining the membership list is a great way of supporting the group and all are welcome.

Just visit www.grassingtonmines.com and click on the tab "Become a Member". From there all you need to do is create a user account.