Author Topic: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records  (Read 9929 times)

Prince of Darkness

  • Guest
Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« on: July 16, 2007, 05:59:08 pm »
Anyone got any results on global temperature records from cave reasearch. I'm not a cave reseacher myself but is there anything from cave sediments, fossils etc that would indicate global temperatures in the short term say 0-100,000 years and longer term. I asking because this piece of reseach http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=5537548  has come up on fossilised midges.

Global warming from man made CO2 is crap.............in my opinion.

Offline Elaine

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
  • Axbridge Caving Group
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 06:45:41 pm »
Global warming from man made CO2 is crap.............in my opinion.

Can I ask why you think that?
Wot tiny writing!

Offline graham

  • Retired
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10942
  • UBSS, Speleo-Club de Perigueux, GSG, SUI
    • UBSS
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 07:13:58 pm »
Global warming from man made CO2 is crap.............in my opinion.

Can I ask why you think that?

Yes you can, go on, do!

Or I will.
Caving is for Life not just for Christmas

Offline Bob Smith

  • new to all things i haven't seen before
  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • BEC
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 07:26:48 pm »
cos the hockey stick graph is crap and ice core data contardicts it? there's still a lot of people that will tell you otherwise :shrug: be better of if we all just saved a bit of energy and conserved resoures than concentrating on just reducing CO2

Offline anfieldman

  • AKA Mark Whyte a caving
  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 989
  • WCC.......when I get to paying my subs.
    • Marks Artwork
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 07:36:03 pm »
Has anyone watched 'An Inconvenient Truth'?
It certainly made me think that we are sh**ing this planet. The figures in the film speak for themselves.
 :(
You ain't seen me.......................right?

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12313
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 07:41:25 pm »
Try this for a bit of balance!..... - it's a scientific rebuttal of Gore's panicfest.

http://www.aconvenientfiction.com/inconvenient3.html

Offline graham

  • Retired
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10942
  • UBSS, Speleo-Club de Perigueux, GSG, SUI
    • UBSS
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2007, 07:50:12 pm »
Dunno why you lot post on this forum, you'd all be better off here.  ::)
Caving is for Life not just for Christmas

Offline anfieldman

  • AKA Mark Whyte a caving
  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 989
  • WCC.......when I get to paying my subs.
    • Marks Artwork
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2007, 08:11:46 pm »
Do you think that such a sudden change in global temperature, ice shelves collapsing etc means something?
I am also thinking how the world has changed so much in my lifetime. When I was a kid we had cold winters with snow and it was biting cold (even in Swindon, not just oop North). The glaciers and ice shelves at the north pole were not disintegrating before our eyes. As they said in Gores film, the CO2 content in the atmosphere is the highest it has ever been (compared to ice core samples that go back 650,000 years) and during those 650,000 years there have been many global increases in temperature. Everyone is entitled to think what they want and I am not saying that only the film convinced me (even though I made it sound like that) :-[. My experiences of the weather when I was young also sways my opinion to 'it's our fault'.

You ain't seen me.......................right?

Offline Bob Smith

  • new to all things i haven't seen before
  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 763
  • BEC
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2007, 08:13:15 pm »
well graham, i'm sure this has all been discussed at length else where besides, i'm right you're wrong ya boo sucks! :tease: (oh, and you can't deny the hockey stick is crap, i mean using interpolated data for one bit then measured for another, well that's great science isn't it :sleeping:)


Offline graham

  • Retired
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10942
  • UBSS, Speleo-Club de Perigueux, GSG, SUI
    • UBSS
Caving is for Life not just for Christmas

Offline Les W

  • Hard cavin'
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5270
  • Wessex Cave Club, UCET
    • Wessex Cave Club
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2007, 08:23:32 pm »
As they said in Gores film, the CO2 content in the atmosphere is the highest it has ever been (compared to ice core samples that go back 650,000 years)

The atmospheric CO2 was at it's highest during the Carboniferous  :o 350,000,000 years ago! Ice cores don't tell it all.  :read:
I'm a very busy person

Offline Robert Scott

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
  • A Yorkshireman with a Scottish father
    • http://www.hughendon.btinternet.co.uk
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2007, 09:14:50 pm »
Anyone got any results on global temperature records from cave reasearch. I'm not a cave reseacher myself but is there anything from cave sediments, fossils etc that would indicate global temperatures in the short term say 0-100,000 years and longer term. I asking because this piece of reseach http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=5537548  has come up on fossilised midges.

Global warming from man made CO2 is crap.............in my opinion.
If I read that that correctly then Global Warming (or more vaguely Climate Change) stuffs midges. I'll delay my munro-bagging stint until 2020.

Prince of Darkness

  • Guest
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2007, 09:15:22 pm »
Global warming from man made CO2 is crap.............in my opinion.

Can I ask why you think that?
Because nobody has proved that man made CO2 has warmed the planet. Believe me, there is no proof.

Offline Robert Scott

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
  • A Yorkshireman with a Scottish father
    • http://www.hughendon.btinternet.co.uk
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2007, 09:19:12 pm »
Dunno why you lot post on this forum, you'd all be better off here.  ::)
How do Flat-Earthers explain the Poles?

andymorgan

  • Guest
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2007, 09:25:54 pm »
The Poles are descended from the Slavs.

Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12313
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2007, 09:32:19 pm »
Aren't the Andys somewhere in South America?

Offline langcliffe

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2543
    • Caving Routes in the Northern Dales
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 10:12:28 pm »
The atmospheric CO2 was at it's highest during the Carboniferous  :o 350,000,000 years ago! Ice cores don't tell it all.

Actually, there was probably about twice as much carbon dioxide by mass in the atmosphere in Hadean times, then there is total atmosphere today.

However, coming forward into the Phanerozoic, current models indicate that the CO2 level was about ten times that of present atmospheric levels as now (with a large error range) in Cambrian times, reducing to about current levels in the Carboniferous. This partially explains the end of the Carboniferous / beginning of the Permian ice age. Levels then rose again in Mesozoic times, before reducing to current levels.

Hence, carbon dioxide was relatively low in Carboniferous times.

Oxygen levels, however, were very high during Carboniferous times. This was primarily due to the high rate of carbon sequestration, and accounts for how giant dragonflies were able to evolve.

Offline Robert Scott

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
  • A Yorkshireman with a Scottish father
    • http://www.hughendon.btinternet.co.uk
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 11:06:22 pm »
The Poles are descended from the Slavs.
Not those Poles. They're in the Polish Club on Edmund Street, drinking ten thirty beer.
I meant the poles, North and South. The cold bits.

Offline graham

  • Retired
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10942
  • UBSS, Speleo-Club de Perigueux, GSG, SUI
    • UBSS
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 11:08:03 pm »
Aren't the Andys somewhere in South America?
D'you know when they're back?
Caving is for Life not just for Christmas

Dep

  • Guest
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 11:21:21 pm »
Do you think that such a sudden change in global temperature, ice shelves collapsing etc means something?
I am also thinking how the world has changed so much in my lifetime. When I was a kid we had cold winters with snow and it was biting cold (even in Swindon, not just oop North). The glaciers and ice shelves at the north pole were not disintegrating before our eyes. As they said in Gores film, the CO2 content in the atmosphere is the highest it has ever been (compared to ice core samples that go back 650,000 years) and during those 650,000 years there have been many global increases in temperature. Everyone is entitled to think what they want and I am not saying that only the film convinced me (even though I made it sound like that) :-[. My experiences of the weather when I was young also sways my opinion to 'it's our fault'.

My experience of it being different when I was younger is the same as yours, but my interpretation is not.

I agree it demonstrates a clear and unmistakeable sign that things have warmed up - but says nothing about the cause - man-made or natural background cycle.
I'm inclined to think it's a bit of both.

A very long time ago the atmosphere was mainly C02 with no free oxygen and the single celled creatures back then respired CO2 and gave off oxygen as a waste-product. Eventually they caused the atmosphere to change to what we see today and caused their own extinction making way for oxygen dependant and more advanced creatures.


Offline Elaine

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
  • Axbridge Caving Group
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 11:52:56 pm »
Aren't the Andys somewhere in South America?
D'you know when they're back?

My Andy is here - or at least he had better be. He never asked me if he could go out!
Wot tiny writing!

Offline Elaine

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
  • Axbridge Caving Group
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 12:00:01 am »
Oh Prince of Darkness, why would you say there is no proof that C02 has warmed the planet? C02 levels have gone up and global temperature has gone up. It is also generally accepted that C02 is a greenhouse gas and will cause a temperature rise. I accept that this is not definite proof - ie it could be down to something else - but will we ever get absolute definite unrefutable proof before it is too late and most of us have been wiped out? Seems to me that it is quite likely that man's activities could well cause a global temperature increase, and that will be fatal to a vast number of people because the resulting climate changes will result in crop failures and famines that we cannot deal with.

Too depressing. Just one more chocolate biscuit before global warming wipes them all out I think....
Wot tiny writing!

Cave Monkey

  • Guest
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2007, 12:22:46 am »
Has anyone watched 'An Inconvenient Truth'?
It certainly made me think that we are sh**ing this planet. The figures in the film speak for themselves.
 :(

Read his book, the name escapes me but it is a core text for the OU.

There is one major point that the film seems to miss-out or is tactically ignored that his book surmises perfectly. We have no way of knowing the effect man has had on the planet or the effect man will have, as there is nothing to compare it against. Basically everything thats wrong is our fault, because that way people can keep making money out of it.

The section on how wind turbines will take 30+ years to pay off their carbon/energy footprint and yet have an operational life of much less is most amusing.


Offline Cap'n Chris

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 12313
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2007, 07:48:23 am »
it is a core text for the OU.

On what course?

A core text for every school ought to be Dr. Stanton's excellent work on Human Population Growth.

http://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Growth-Human-Populations-1750-2000/dp/0906522218

"Dire consequences", indeed.

Offline whitelackington

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6533
  • Pyrenees Potholer Digger
Re: Global Warming and Cooling Cave Records
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2007, 07:50:54 am »
I am sure caves are warmer than they used to be  :-\
but of course i can not provide proof, it could be that I have better clothing,
it could be that as I get older my metabolisim is changing, making me feel hotter,
it could be that I have to use more energy to keep up with the youngens or it could be that "the outside is warmer"
lot of imponderables ain't there :-\

 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search