Bear Grylls on tv

[moorebooks]

quote from cavergirl:

"I'm not particularly impressed by either response."

No, am neither am I.  Typical jobworth reply.

For once I totally agree with Tony . The comment after the watershed is irrelevant twaddle have they never heard of Catch up or recording. Grills went in there poorly equipped and behaved like some super hero . How often do we complain about numpties going underground with just a torch and no helmet and these are rarely kids.

I recently did some filming with escape to the country - you have about 5 days notice it must be done at a set time and must include, the professional cavers would have been told do it now or not at all. Its amazing what people will do to get on TV particularly if being paid. Before anyone says I did a piece at Snailbeach on surface and a bit underground in Day Level which is a simple walk in and didn't get paid. If it had been pouring down I wouldn't have done it

Mike

 

[PaulW]

The head of media relations might think they are lucky to have him, but everyone I know in Scouting think he is a cockwomble

 

[mrodoc]

What a bollocks mealy mouthed response. What is the medic supposed to have done if they drowned - attempt mouth to mouth!

 

[PaulW]

'As you know Bear carries out his TV work as a private individual.'

May be he does, but he also does it with the world scout badge on the arm of his jacket 

 

[pwhole]

If they're fully risk-assessed, then the risk assessment would conclude that the hazard of head injury in that locality had a high likelihood of occurring (5) and that the severity of such an injury in that situation would also be 5. Wearing a helmet would therefore be the ideal procedure to minimise that risk. I struggle to see how a proper risk assessment would not cover such basic and obvious requirements, especially for a TV programme.

 

[cap n chris]

Entering a cave in spate/flood (during poor surface conditions, and which has claimed lives in such a state) is both Plan A and Plan B and is within the terms of the control(s) on their RA? Really? Who's kidding who?

Sounds very much like the sort of thing a safety team would be supporting. Not.

As for Bear being a private individual, total bollocks - he's on TV showing off.

 

[Simon Beck]

You've got to hand it too the guy; ?30 000 a day?! To do something some of us do for fun and for free.. 

The guy's ex-sas and he's climbed Everest... Giving the wrong impression and influencing those who are not so experienced I agree was a bad move. But the insults and name calling is completely out of order. I'm sure if you met him face to face the majority of you wouldn't dare say boo! to him. As ever, I suspect it's more down to jealousy that most of you are pissed with him than anything he's done to damage the sport of caving...

 

[Peter Burgess]

Sorry, Simon, you are wrong as far as my regard from him is concerned. Ex-SAS and Everest climber is irrelevant. Anybody who has that kind of background should understand that it is all the more important to educate while entertaining. Those who act as role models are the very people who need to understand that some people WILL try to emulate them. It only needs one youngster to try and fail for me to lose any respect you think I should have for the man.

 

[Simon Beck]

One episode of Bear Grylls isn't going to change anything! Video games, films, drink and drugs will do far more damage to the generation most influenced by Grylls than his reckless portrayal ever will... Quite frankly it's old news, time to move on..

No amount of good behaviour on our part will ever change the fact that the general population think Cavers of reckless idiots.. I find myself telling these same people, that actually, 99% of cavers take very little risk - if any - at all... And that there are only a handful of us who go out of our way to try get ourselves in to trouble.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I can remember young kids getting hurt when they tried to emulate Batman.

 

[Simon Beck]

Add LSD and they would be...

 

[Peter Burgess]

I only make the point because even a 100 percent obvious fictional character can inspire impressionable kids to do stupid things, so it doesn't take much of leap of imagination to see how real people doing real things are equally as likely to do so.

 

[Speleofish]

I don't have a problem with people 'looking for trouble' if they know what they're doing, don't involve others and are acting as private individuals. Most of the people I know who act in such a way are actually taking reasonably calculated risks - it's just that they can cope with a greater degree of uncertainty than most of us feel comfortable with. Many of us started caving with similar kit to that used by Bear Grylls in his film....

I have two objections to this particular film. First, Grylls is a very influential figure who appears to be legitimising stupid behaviour. Second, he is probably exaggerating the risk and thus glamourising the experience unduly. My (very distant) memories of the scouts suggests this isn't a philosophy they are supposed to encourage.

 

[richardg]

Re: Vote of Confidence in Bear Grylls

? Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 12:56:49 AM ?


Quote



I would perhaps consider Mossdale Caverns to to be the most dangerous cave in the Yorkshire Dales....

However an extremely knowledgeable  veteran caving friend told me it was Long Churn Cave.

This cave is frequently visited by large groups, often complete beginners,Maybe it is the most popular of the caves in the region.......

It is also a ferocious flooder, indeed it is sadly already established that in such conditions it is a killer

Of all the caves it is here that multiple casualties is the most likely

So who the F--k was the professional caver/ safely adviser who suggested this cave and  oversaw a trip into there in these purported conditions?

It has been asked on this thread by at least two other people who was the adviser that the program producers took their advise from..

It is interesting to note the number of cave instructors on this forum enthusiastically telling the world what a dickhead or whatever Bear is and by doing so encouraging the rest of us to consider how great and safety conscious they are.... but in reality it is they who should (for the time being at least) lower their heads in shame...... because the program" safety adviser" may yet turn out to be one from their own ranks........

as an occasional professional caver myself and having experience on working with television,I for one would not be casting stones.......

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/9200519.Safety_review_after_youngsters__Dales_caving_ordeal/

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/17/caving-teacher-tears-student-death

Have a close look at the photos in this article.

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2008/10/01/teenage-cavers-rescued-after-being-trapped-by-rising-water?

An online newspaper (The Grough) has now come up with the name of the "caving guide" ( professional qualified caver?)who accompanied Bear on this caving trip, it would be nice to hear what he has to say and why did he consider it appropriate to enter Long Churn cave in those potentially lethal conditions and so sanctioning such an unfolding drama...

To quote the paper "The television star, his underground guide Phil Murphy and the film crew are seen to make a rushed exit from the cave. Bear Grylls says: ?We?re in genuine danger of being swept away so, for safety, we have to switch the cameras off."

 

[Mark Wright]

If they're fully risk-assessed, then the risk assessment would conclude that the hazard of head injury in that locality had a high likelihood of occurring (5) and that the severity of such an injury in that situation would also be 5. Wearing a helmet would therefore be the ideal procedure to minimise that risk. I struggle to see how a proper risk assessment would not cover such basic and obvious requirements, especially for a TV programme.

When he was in the low bits there was indeed a high likelyhood of him banging his head but lets be realistic about the consequences. He would probably just say 'Ouch' and carry on working so no 'lost time' so a low level of risk.

When you watch the final piece on TV it is very easy to make the water look a lot worse than it really is so unless you were actually there its difficult to say with certainty what the conditions actually were. It did look pretty wet but that could have been down to having a good cameraman who knows how to make things look exciting on TV.

Its all down to what level of risk you are prepared to accept. When he allegedly flew his paramotor higher than Everest a few years ago that was definately high risk, no matter what method you use to calculate it. Most called his actions during that stunt irresponsible.

He got a lot of stick from the free flight community after that was aired on TV in much the same way as he is from our community but it hasn't stopped one of worlds biggest paramotor manufacturers bringing out a Bear Grylls Parajet paramotor. I was in Go Outdoors in Sheffield the other day and Craghoppers now have a Bear Grylls range of clothing and Gerber have a Bear Grylls range of knives and axes so he is obviously good for business.

I think he is a bit of a knob but no amount of complaining about him on here will change anything. Time will only tell as to whether his actions have influenced youngsters into going down a cave without the correct gear and supervision but I think not. I'm sure (hopefull) most people who may be influenced by his antics will do a bit of research and have the right equipment before they venture underground. If he does bring people into the sport who would otherwise not, then that has got to be a good thing regardless of how much we all hate him.

People seem keen to austrasise whoever advised him and his crew but from the experience I have of working in the film and TV environment, there is little the advisor can do if the lovey doesn't want to wear a helmet other than walk away and the outcome of this scenario could be considerably worse.

Its obvious from the posts on here that representatives of the Scouting movement think their Cheif Scout is a bit of a knob but I'm sure they will be doing an excellent job of educating scouts in the rights and wrongs of going caving and ensuring our future cavers don't do the stupid things that Bear Grylls does. 

As for the responses from the TV companies, what else would they say?

Mark

 

[Simon Beck]

Spot on Mark, well said!.

 

[Roger W]

Austrasise them?  I thought they had stopped transporting people to the colonies...   

On a more serious note - if there are Bear Grylls paramotors, clothing, knives and axes, do you think there would be any mileage in a range of Bear Grylls caving helmets, lamps and oversuits?

 

[Mark Wright]

I meant Ostrasize but Austrasising might be a better option for what to do with Bear Grylls.

Mark

 

[damo8604]

Well he had to find something to do when he got broken in the Territorial army & he has more faith in God than most Scouts...

Mike

Fixed that for you! 

 

[mikem]

Thanks. Many years ago we helped film a mountain biking sequence for a kids TV show (No Naked Flames) where they asked to borrow a bike (after we finished) to shoot a linking sequence - turned out they decided to make out they had lost (been left behind by) the instructor...

We also took them down Goatchurch, with no such consequences, and more recently Dick & Dom (although one of them was already broken so didn't go underground).

Mike