Callout times

[gus horsley]

I think Darkplaces, you speak perhaps for yourself, and those you accompany into mines. This is definitely not the way I or my colleagues work nowadays -we would treat a mine and a cave call-out in exactly the same way. As for how you deal with a call-out procedure for a place where you "shouldn't be", are you seriously suggesting that you would rather be left to die in an old mine rather than have the embarrassment of being rescued from a "secret" mission. It's a very noble sacrifice to make to protect access for those who would survive your unfortunate demise.

Agreed.  I've had various "secret" missions to mines, sometimes not knowing what I'm going to find.  I've left details of access, grid references, etc and if there has been a location which looks tempting but isn't on my list, I've left it for a future date rather than risk the consequences of being a frequently solo explorer and copping something nasty.  Just think of the adverse publicity that would generate.

 

[darkplaces]

Otherwise expect a very, very long wait if you ever need assistance...

As is my choice for some locations. I don't hold to the idea of having to adjust my actions for others who may have to come in after me, if people did that we would not have pioneers who went beyond reason to get that find that you take for granted now. If I remember my history right, sump 1 or something was dived with a very experimental (home build) breathing kit, with no means of rescue if it went bad.

I also think (a wider issue, off topic really) that some might see the CRO as first point of rescue rather then learning to be self reliant and relying on each other to self rescue. When I sliced my paw in a slate mine no question of calling out CRO/MRO we knew what to do how to act how to get out how to apply 1st aid, assisted rope support.

You cant have CRO running after you 1hr after ETO time in some of these international places many visit. 700 meters down in peru, with some Yorkshireman going right another 6 hrs to prussic out now...

Which is why when the MRO ran its thing back on the 4th of November (sadly I could not attend myself) it was surprising to learn actually fewer cavers turned up then were MRO members. In fact (being hypocritical) I was disgusted so few turned up.

 

[Walrus]

My rule of thumb when going in most out-of-the-way places is to tell my missus where I'm going: she has no idea & no interest in any of these places so doesn't really care if I am somwhere I 'shouldn't be' but if she hasn't heard from me after 24 hours she can call someone to rescue me or contact other people I've gone with (or pop the champagne) as she sees fit.

 

[paul]

Otherwise expect a very, very long wait if you ever need assistance...

As is my choice for some locations. I don't hold to the idea of having to adjust my actions for others who may have to come in after me, if people did that we would not have pioneers who went beyond reason to get that find that you take for granted now. If I remember my history right, sump 1 or something was dived with a very experimental (home build) breathing kit, with no means of rescue if it went bad.

Nobody is asking you to "adjust your actions" - probably nobody else cares about them anyway. If you have wishes to emulate Balcombe and Sheppard's pioneering achievements, then go ahead.

All I was pointing out was that if you are venturing underground, no matter whether it is some "secret" location or a popular venue, it is only sensible to leave the information with somebody you trust. At least then when the unexpected happens, the Police are not just told "He went caving/down a mine and he hasn't come back yet - I don't know where - somewhere in [inset your favourite caving/mine exploring region]."

I also think (a wider issue, off topic really) that some might see the CRO as first point of rescue rather then learning to be self reliant and relying on each other to self rescue. When I sliced my paw in a slate mine no question of calling out CRO/MRO we knew what to do how to act how to get out how to apply 1st aid, assisted rope support.

I agree with you that being familiar with self-rescue techniques is admirable.

You cant have CRO running after you 1hr after ETO time in some of these international places many visit. 700 meters down in peru, with some Yorkshireman going right another 6 hrs to prussic out now...

I doubt that CRO would be likely to turn out in Peru. When cavers do go on trips to foreign locations they usually prepare for the eventuality. But I suppose you wouldn't bother?

 

[Roger W]

A very minor point that I'm sure all you experts will be well aware of - but it's as well to remember you might have to walk quite a way when you get out of the cave before your mobile bone will work to tell whoever that you are out safe and sound...

 

[Dep]

Official or unofficial trip I ALWAYS leave the basic details (where when what how etc) with my wife or other trusted person. And two clearly understood call-out times - 1) when I can be expected out and 2) when it becomes an emergency, usually an hour apart.
I have a load of pre-printed sheets, so all I have to do is fill in the blanks, it also has all relevant contact info and phone numbers of people I regularly go underground with.

Anyone I leave a callout with knows exactly what I mean by those two times, and I know exactly what action they will take and when.

I never leave or accept a call-out without ensuring those basic times/facts/actions are mutually understood.

DP: I don't understand why a 'covert' trip shouldn't be done in the same way as a legitimate one.
The 'emergency' numbers don't necessarily have to be CRO but your trusted friends.
This is what I've always done in the past. People I know who can render quiet assistance without fuss, only calling in outside help after their own assessment.

I am sure a big psychological boost in any 'trapped/injured' situation is knowing that back on the surface events are ticking down towards your inevitable rescue...
Surely the alternative is lying there with your energy fading in the grim hopelessness of the situation thinking; "I wish I'd... ..."

 

[Elaine]

Or you could least spare a thought for those who would eventually be looking anywhere and everywhere for you because they didn't know where you went.

 

[cap n chris]

... one day he simply vanished.

This happens a lot if you read the papers*. People are disappearing/going missing all the time.

* I don't mean that if you read a lot of newspapers you're likely to disappear; I mean that you will read in the papers of frequent occurrences where people are reported missing.

 

[graham]

:doubt: I'm going to stop reading the papers ...

 

[whitelackington]

Otherwise expect a very, very long wait if you ever need assistance...

As is my choice for some locations. I don't hold to the idea of having to adjust my actions for others who may have to come in after me, if people did that we would not have pioneers who went beyond reason to get that find that you take for granted now. If I remember my history right, sump 1 or something was dived with a very experimental (home build) breathing kit, with no means of rescue if it went bad.

I also think (a wider issue, off topic really) that some might see the CRO as first point of rescue rather then learning to be self reliant and relying on each other to self rescue. When I sliced my paw in a slate mine no question of calling out CRO/MRO we knew what to do how to act how to get out how to apply 1st aid, assisted rope support.

You cant have CRO running after you 1hr after ETO time in some of these international places many visit. 700 meters down in peru, with some Yorkshireman going right another 6 hrs to prussic out now...

Which is why when the MRO ran its thing back on the 4th of November (sadly I could not attend myself) it was surprising to learn actually fewer cavers turned up then were MRO members. In fact (being hypocritical) I was disgusted so few turned up.

Good job we did the Hanover Chalk Mine S.E.C.R.O. event then D.P.
That was an excellant do and very well supported