Cavers - why do we bicker about access so much?

[Peter Burgess]

Recent posters might like to address the question posed in the topic title.

 

[todcaver]

No explanation then ? 

 

[Peter Burgess]

I am not going to give the valid reasons why the sites I am familiar with are gated in this topic because that's not why it was created. If you want to start a new discussion, feel free. Just don't bicker about anything that gets written to it.

 

[todcaver]

No explanation then ? 

 

[cavemanmike]

peter uses "conservation" to lock caves up, other people empire build and ordinary cavers who just go underground "just want to go underground" =WAR oo oo oo oo oo what does it stand for absolutely nothing
that's why cavers bicker. in my opinion

 

[Peter Burgess]

Do I? Thanks for letting me know. I had wondered.

 

[todcaver]

This topic is why do we bicker over cave access - your saying you can't explain why your caves are locked up because it's the wrong article  :-\
No explanation why things are locked up has got to be a contributing factor to bickering about access    Unless your taking the piss in which case well done

 

[Peter Burgess]

I am content to explain. Not here. Start a new topic please. And you can point your accusations at a group, not specifically at me thank you. No bickering from me here, just a respect for the topic.

 

[todcaver]

I think it's time to stop bickering and bring out the grinders !    I've had enough of all these so called land owners , elite caving clubs and General arseholes , my new motto is - if you can't join them  BEAT THEM !   
P,s. I own all the caves and the countryside - anyone who try's stopping me
Be Warned ! 

 

[mudman]

This topic is why do we bicker over cave access - your saying you can't explain why your caves are locked up because it's the wrong article  :-\
No explanation why things are locked up has got to be a contributing factor to bickering about access    Unless your taking the piss in which case well done

And would any explanation of why caves are locked up remotely satisfy you? I seriously doubt it.

Bickering happens because one group have a view at odds with that of another group. Neither group are willing to budge on their view as it is a firmly held belief but will continue to try to get the other group to see and accept their point of view.

Both groups are battering their heads against the brick wall that is the other groups opposing viewpoint; but both will continue to try to bash a hole through the bricks and mortar with a couple of pounds of soggy grey goo. The result is that neither group gets anywhere but are bloody-minded enough to keep trying.

 

[Peter Burgess]

My explanation for the bickering is that lots of members here can't grasp the concept of respecting the views of people who disagree with them, and fail to control their thoughts, to the point where rude words and nasty comments result. Pointing out that you don't agree with someone is fine, but it should be done with a mature attitude to your fellow cavers, and not using alpha male posturing and silly words. You don't have to move from your stance in order to get on with other people, just stop behaving badly.

 

[cavemanmike]

some people see other people being continually argumentative and negative as "behaving badly"
is it because some peeps pint half empty instead of half full.  :-\ :-\

 

[Peter Burgess]

I don't think any behaviour here is "bad", other than when a discussion descends into personal abuse and unfounded accusation. Disagreeing is not "bad" behaviour.

 

[cavemanmike]

i just find constant and relentless chipping away at anything and everything a bit tiresome
like i said gives the impression of pint half empty
you do disagreeing so well you should think about taking it up as a profession 

 

[royfellows]

I don't think any behaviour here is "bad", other than when a discussion descends into personal abuse and unfounded accusation. Disagreeing is not "bad" behaviour.

A lot is said here in a few words.
We will always disagree about things and access appears to be top of the list.

So, where do we go.

I would suggest a change in attitude. If someone offends, and it could be a simple typo error, this happened, instead of taking it up one more rung on the ladder of escalation, try to bring it down instead.
Then hopefully we will all behave like gentlemen and threads wont get locked.

If someone appears to be 'coming from somewhere else', then use intelligent questions to expose it for what it is, don't resort to insults or name calling.

This is just my half pennyworth. Hope I don't get abuse now. Oh Dear.

 

[Peter Burgess]

i just find constant and relentless chipping away at anything and everything a bit tiresome
like i said gives the impression of pint half empty
you do disagreeing so well you should think about taking it up as a profession 

There are plenty of people I agree with! I do take exception to having the good work and tireless efforts of good people misrepresented. It happens regularly here.

 

[cavemanmike]

fair point

 

[Ian Adams]

I do take exception to having the good work and tireless efforts of good people misrepresented. It happens regularly here.

Like this;

Interesting to note that those that set up CAL and its advocates have been the strongest critics of the PDCMG when they play exactly the same role...

 

[Peter Burgess]

Indeed, Ian. The PDCMG try to do a good job despite being slagged off at every opportunity. I quite agree with you.

 

[royfellows]

Indeed, Ian. The PDCMG try to do a good job despite being slagged off at every opportunity. I quite agree with you.

Your deliberately twisting Ian's posting out of the context that he intended which possibly explains why you get regularly bashed on the forums.

This is an impartial observation and you would be liked a lot more if you stopped doing this sort of thing.