Change of ownership for ukCaving

[cap n chris]

Fairynuff; neutral views exist too so such a system wouldn't cater for those, one presumes.

 

[bagpuss]

Fairynuff; neutral views exist too so such a system wouldn't cater for those, one presumes.

Indifferent button?

 

[cap n chris]

Good question. If there was a CBA Button could anyone be bothered to press it?

 

[Lazarus]

OH! and can we please get a better handle on the geography of the Dales  :tease:

probably on the day that dales based cavers admit that there are, actually, caves elsewhere in the country.

'ere we go ...

That'll be the day when those down south realise there's more to life than gates, leaders and control.

And to be fair TBE, you did say if you don't like it, don't read it....

It strikes me that likes and karma and that sort of thing are fairly meaningless on UKCaving because the number of active posters is so small. On some larger forums karma or number of likes is useful to distinguish experienced posters from those whose opinion is not regarded to carry much weight.

I don't know how this could be done but I would like to see more active cavers of all abilities posting on here, perhaps more from abroad, that way we would get more of everything.

Considering approximately 10% of all posts on this forum are by just two people, or about 20% by the top five posters, then it really does make this forum present a rather narrow view on caving. Of that 20% one has a general dislike of cavers, another was accused of just posting rubbish and well, you get the idea - it really is no surprise most cavers steer clear of this place.

 

[Fiona]

I would have liked that comment Cap'n Chris because it was funny and made me smile but outside the context of this discussion I wouldn't have had a response I felt worth posting.

As a newbie go the forum I have been encouraged by positive feedback by people such as Pegasus and Bograt and a like button would be an easier way of people gauging whether or not their contribution was appreciated and relevant.

I'm happy with the forum as it is and will continue to use it regardless I just thought I'd stick my oar in.

 

[cap n chris]

... it really is no surprise most cavers steer clear of this place.

There is a simple solution to this logical irony, though. The more newcomers who join and post, the more the "problem" gets solved.

 

[Lazarus]

... it really is no surprise most cavers steer clear of this place.

There is a simple solution to this logical irony, though. The more newcomers who join and post, the more the "problem" gets solved.

Indeed. But, it would need a damn good PR campaign to make people want to join and post, rather than ignoring it because it's full of people arguing etc. UK Grumps, UK Grumbling, UK <insert other disparaging remark> - heard them all when it comes to this forum.

 

[cap n chris]

Indeed. But, it would need a damn good PR campaign to make people want to join and post

  I think it's being worked on!    8)

 

[bograt]

I thought most caves were overseas, mesel'.

Not overseas, just forrin parts!

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Considering approximately 10% of all posts on this forum are by just two people, or about 20% by the top five posters, then it really does make this forum present a rather narrow view on caving. Of that 20% one has a general dislike of cavers, another was accused of just posting rubbish and well, you get the idea - it really is no surprise most cavers steer clear of this place.

Interesting point there but I would not be surprised if you didn't find a similar situation on many other forums, normally amongst owners and moderators. However reading that a thought came to mind: Comparing and contrasting a couple of other forums I use, both of which are much larger than this one, on one I post regularly, on the other I only post rarely and the difference for me is really the attitude of the moderators. The one on which I post regularly is heavily moderated by very conscientious and neutral moderators; on the other the mods are inclined to be antagonistic. I realize I am probably about to skate on to a big patch of thin ice but I do see a mix of moderation on UKC. Perhaps refining the rules a little and then a period of rigid enforcement may give some of the lurkers the confidence to post a bit more.

 

[graham]

...one has a general dislike of cavers,

No, only those cavers who care more about their own 'rights' than they do about the caves.

Had lunch in the Hunters yesterday with about a dozen long-standing cavers from several clubs. The discussions were interesting and amusing. I think only one, possibly two, of them post on here occasionally.

Most of that group don't generally communicate via the net. I doubt there was a Facebook account between them. it is difficult to see how any internet site might attract such people in the future.

That is something of a shame, but it also helps one realise that the views of any self-selected subgroup, be it UKC posters or people who frequent the Hunters, cannot be taken as representative of the whole.

 

[graham]

Whilst musing on such things, I went straight from this site to the Grauniad's. Here I read:

The New Yorker?s Rebecca Meade has a point: it?s time to kick the bucket list to the curb. She writes:

    [The bucket list] is the YOLO-ization of cultural experience, whereby the pursuit of fleeting novelty is granted greater value than a patient dedication to an enduring attention ? an attention which might ultimately enlarge the self, and not just pad one?s experiential r?sum?. The notion of the bucket list legitimizes this diminished conception of the value of repeated exposure to art and culture. Rather, it privileges a restless consumption, a hungry appetite for the new. I?ve seen Stonehenge. Next?

This is, to me, a serious threat to caves and to caving, as well as to many other pursuits.

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Whilst musing on such things, I went straight from this site to the Grauniad's. Here I read:

The New Yorker?s Rebecca Meade has a point: it?s time to kick the bucket list to the curb. She writes:

    [The bucket list] is the YOLO-ization of cultural experience, whereby the pursuit of fleeting novelty is granted greater value than a patient dedication to an enduring attention ? an attention which might ultimately enlarge the self, and not just pad one?s experiential r?sum?. The notion of the bucket list legitimizes this diminished conception of the value of repeated exposure to art and culture. Rather, it privileges a restless consumption, a hungry appetite for the new. I?ve seen Stonehenge. Next?

This is, to me, a serious threat to caves and to caving, as well as to many other pursuits.

You're sure that was the Guardian and not Pseuds Corner in Private Eye?

 

[graham]

Whilst musing on such things, I went straight from this site to the Grauniad's. Here I read:

The New Yorker?s Rebecca Meade has a point: it?s time to kick the bucket list to the curb. She writes:

    [The bucket list] is the YOLO-ization of cultural experience, whereby the pursuit of fleeting novelty is granted greater value than a patient dedication to an enduring attention ? an attention which might ultimately enlarge the self, and not just pad one?s experiential r?sum?. The notion of the bucket list legitimizes this diminished conception of the value of repeated exposure to art and culture. Rather, it privileges a restless consumption, a hungry appetite for the new. I?ve seen Stonehenge. Next?

This is, to me, a serious threat to caves and to caving, as well as to many other pursuits.

You're sure that was the Guardian and not Pseuds Corner in Private Eye?

Quite sure, though I didn't follow the link back to the New Yorker

The article was a response to Pres. Obama's visit to Stonehenge last week. It's interesting to note that the possible relaxation of the restrictions on visiting Altamira came from the embarrassment of local politicos at not being able to show visiting VIPs around their world famous 'attraction'.

 

[jasonbirder]

...one has a general dislike of cavers,

Quote from: Graham on Today at 08:13:29am

No, only those cavers who care more about their own 'rights' than they do about the caves.

As you have previously stated

it only takes 'one individual or one trip' to ruin a cave 

that seems to include pretty much include anyone who chooses to Cave as prioritising their 'rights'

 

[graham]

...one has a general dislike of cavers,

Quote from: Graham on Today at 08:13:29am

No, only those cavers who care more about their own 'rights' than they do about the caves.

As you have previously stated

it only takes 'one individual or one trip' to ruin a cave 

that seems to include pretty much include anyone who chooses to Cave as prioritising their 'rights'

How does the word 'privilege' run with you? Very few cavers have the 'right' to enter any cave. Some do, because they are party to agreements that give them that right. This rankles in some quarters. The thing is that the caves don't actually need to be visited. This also rankles in some quarters. However, if you, as a visitor accept that every trip is a privilege not a right then your view of the relationship between caves, cavers and conservation changes.

Note that I have not mentioned landowners in the above. I am aware that some, in some parts of the country, wish to give certain large landowners 'a good kicking' or the equivalent. That, as a political view, has some merit, though it had rather more a century ago, but it has nothing to do with caves.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Thanks everyone for your congratulations, how encouraging.

Thanks also for the feedback - please do keep it coming, we are listening!

Jane Allen

Here's an idea, clamp down hard on off-topic hijacking of threads  :

 

[Joe90]

Here's an idea, clamp down hard on off-topic hijacking of threads  :
[/quote]

That's a good one, I think its something we are probably all guilty off.

 

[kay]

Here's an idea, clamp down hard on off-topic hijacking of threads  :

That's a good one, I think its something we are probably all guilty off.
[/quote]

If we're all guilty of it, it's an important element, the way one person's post sparks off another thought which isn't quite related and which leads quite quickly to thread drift. After all, it happens in normal conversation! So instead of clamping it off, split the thread as the mods do sometime. And we could be more disciplined too - if we want to say something that's a bit tangential, we could start a new thread with a quote of the post that sparked the thought.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Also how about some new emoticons e.g. grinding an axe, flogging a dead horse and chip on the shoulder?

These might be more use on here than a "like" button