CROW make my mind up time bca ballot papers are here

[Bottlebank]

So it's fingers crossed that access will continue to be allowed on the current basis then? The longer time goes by the less likely it will be that the argument for CRoW being applicable to caves can be made.

Yep - fingers crossed. Seems to be working pretty well at the moment and hopefully it will carry on improving whichever way the vote goes - don't forget some improvements are in the control of cavers - such as CNCC policies.

If we get a "yes" vote you'd better cross your toes as well and hope it doesn't all go pear shaped

As for the second bit I'm not sure leaving it longer will make much difference to the outcome, or you may be right, but we simply don't know.

 

[Ian Adams]

And in case you don't know, access is now possible, only because of a mine explorer going out of his way to sort it out through negotiation, setting up a trust etc etc, and not by using CRoW legislation as a fix all. I just say thank God for such people.

As I mentioned above (and you skirted around), that event happened long before this.

And .... you need to stop using his (out of context) quotes and his creditability - he is perfectly capable of posting himself if he wants to.

And .... if you do insist on repeating "excerpts" of his quotes, might you be decent enough to use all of his quote instead of just partial bits that seem to help your argument. Like this he said for example;

Excerpt quote from OP (verbatim)
"I dont really want to be drawn into the debate"

Ian

 

[Peter Burgess]

Ian - try as you might to deflect the issue, it happened, and it was directly related to CRoW legislation, so not that long ago in the greater scheme of things.

I am at liberty to use information from wherever I find it, if it has been openly published and if I think it is relevant.

Out of respect for the source, I have not mentioned names, and if he wishes to identify himself then that's up to him. It's pretty obvious anyway!

I am not drawing anyone into the debate, merely using the facts he published himself earlier. I am not surprised he doesn't want to engage, especially here, what with the aggravation some wish to cause with those that disagree with them. You only have to read the other comments from others in the same topic about those who engage on UKCaving (including both you and me) to see where he is coming from.

 

[Pegasus]

[gmod]If this post degenerates into bickering and petty point scoring it will be locked. I have asked many cavers who currently don't engage with UK Caving (The Lurkers) why that is and the overwhelming answer is the bickering, bullying, petty point scoring etc - cavers are really put off by it and it gives the forum a bad reputation. This situation has improved recently and I'm sure cavers would like to keep it that way, thank you [/gmod]

 

[cap n chris]

[mod]Topic locked for the time being, due to escalation of bickering (removed).[/mod]