Improved rope washing ?

[Speleokitty]

If I'm washing ropes the washing machine gets an empty run first to get rid of residual washing powder but both ropes and oversuits go through my washing machine.

 

[owd git]

I always get the thick off (if they are really bad) in a large tub/trug, then daisy chain coil it up and bung in the washing machine

If you can't be arsed/ bothered to chain; a log / onion sack saves the bother, and still keeps the rope out of t' gubbins of t' machine.
Don'y tell Gerri' 

 

[global_s]

If I'm washing ropes the washing machine gets an empty run first to get rid of residual washing powder but both ropes and oversuits go through my washing machine.

What sort of suit do you have? My AV says not to machine wash, but it's starting to feel a little stiff.

 

[Speleokitty]

My AV and Meander both go in  the washing machine as have Warmback and Caving Supplies suits before them. I've never had problems with any of them.

 

[Fulk]

If I'm washing ropes the washing machine gets an empty run first to get rid of residual washing powder

I find that powder in the powder drawer-thingy congeals, and doesn't get shifted by simply doing a 'dry run (!)' as it were, so I remove the drawer and clean out all the crap before washing plaited ropes at the lowest temperature setting.

 

[braveduck]

Anyone who has stayed at the BPC HQ at Brackenbottom will have seen our rope washer mounted outside.There is a smaller inside model using the same Astroturf door matting.I have built three of the large ones so far and they do fantastic job.The mats have finaly been turned after about four years use. These do a fantastic job and keep the members fit at the same time.
When  am not building rope washers I am building digging equiptment.
Feel free to come and inspect our washer any time.The last one did cost ?54 all plastic and stainless steel constuction.

 

[Geoff R]

It seems that the U.S. with destructible rope diameters may have some evidence that domestic pressure rope washing does no harm. 

It seems there is opinion in UK caving that this is NOT a good idea, but I hesitate to say that I seem to be missing direct evidence except a certain strong opinion, which in the absence of anything else I must agree with, to stay on the safe side of life  :

I would be really interested to know what
a) rope manufacturers say and
b) what at heights guys recommend   

 

[SamT]

I know of one access outfit that have a large metal 40 gallon drum - this gets filled up with hot water, the ropes jiggled about within by some sort of bubble blowing affair - like a big jacuzzi, then pulled out though a scrubber.  They come out amazingly well.

I still reckon for 'domestic' scale rope cleaning - you cant beat a washing machine.  IIRC - a regular on these forums bought a cheapo one from one of those second hand places for about ?50, just to use for caving gear.  Cheaper than one of daves!! (but probably wont last forever)

 

[Penguin]

A quick google of a few manufacturers:

Beal - specifically do not power wash ('could force dirt into the rope and cut fibres'), wash at <30deg with mild detergent, machine wash on gentle, etc. etc.
Edelrid - wash at 30deg in a bath or machine wash but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.
Mammut - wash in hand warm water in bath or machine but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.
Petzl - do not power wash symbol, and 30deg water, brush, washing machine symbols. 

 

[Amy]

I am bumping this thread curious if any of you tried it with your ropes, as someone suggested the caving ropes ya'all use have looser woven sheathes with may affect the outcome of the experiment (and this was noted in the post I made, just, everyone here uses PMI pit rope).

I also noticed that in scanning to make sure there were no replies how to pressure wash didn't come up - obviously you don't crank up the settings, start on the lowest and turn it up until it's cleaning it, and go no higher. Then you certainly wont be able to cut the rope! This is how it's taught to be done here. In talking with manufacturers over here at least, they will say don't pressure wash because they just don't want to mess with it. It's like they McDonalds warning you to not drink hot coffee so they won't get in trouble if you like your coffee hot and burn yourself. As a manufacturer, they can't trust everyone to have the common sense. Easier to say "dont do it" then to give instructions how to. Liability and all that!

To each their own I'm certainly not saying you must power wash, but I am very curious for someone there to try it with whatever you would consider typical caving rope and write it up similar to the http://caveworthy.blogspot.com/2009/05/pressure-washing-rope.html review. It would be interesting and useful information.

 

[Burt]

I always get the thick off (if they are really bad) in a large tub/trug, then daisy chain coil it up and bung in the washing machine on a short 30 deg wash with a very slow spin.  I usually put the machine on a rinse first to clear out residual detergents/softeners.

Comes out lovely and doesn't seem to knacker the machine.. I had 90m of 11mm in last week, top job. Slings etc also come out well.

My arms are getting weaker though  :-\

As above.

 

[Fulk]

Quote from Penguin a few weeks ago:

Edelrid - wash at 30deg in a bath or machine wash but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.
Mammut - wash in hand warm water in bath or machine but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.

I wonder why they stipulate 'don't spin'; in fact, it's hard to see how you can use a domestic washing machine on any wash cycle that doesn't go through at least one spin session.

 

[ianball11]

Would the weight be an issue for the machine more than the rope?

 

[dunc]

Would the weight be an issue for the machine more than the rope?

That would depend entirely on the machines capabilities and the weight / length of rope. Isn't most rope 50-80g/m when dry, but what is it when wet?

Quote from Penguin a few weeks ago:

Edelrid - wash at 30deg in a bath or machine wash but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.
Mammut - wash in hand warm water in bath or machine but don't spin or tumble dry, can use mild detergent.

I wonder why they stipulate 'don't spin'; in fact, it's hard to see how you can use a domestic washing machine on any wash cycle that doesn't go through at least one spin session.

Depends on the level of spin, a fair portion of washers probably have a gentle (wool/silk/delicates) cycle that either doesn't spin or does so gently.

 

[Fulk]

I don't fancy doing SRT on stuff that needs to be  treated as 'delicate'!!!  (Actually, I use my (and, indeed, any) rope carefully, and look after it well . . . so before anyone has a go at me, that remark was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.)

 

[owd git]

I'm with you on that, had a few wonder why not drop the rope in sh1t, and tread on it. then wonder why i'm pissed off!!!
Isn't it a club rope? ( a. no!!.)
2nd point would that matter? eh?
Yes I will be cleaning it later whilst you wonder why I was pissed off.
Rant done aaaaaah 
O.G.

 

[Bob Mehew]

Re spin - my money is on rope manufacturers trying to avoid "you said it was OK to spin and now I have a knackered washing machine".  I have not done trials on weight gain in wet ropes but guess with typically 40% voidage as I recall, a doubling of the weight per unit length.  What I do know is that my machine does not like rinsing 30m lengths and that only goes through a very slow turn rate.  It is not just the load but also the extent to which it sits in the drum off centre and thus creates off balance forces.  As the repair man said that is what you get for a cheap machine 

On differences between USA and European ropes I have just had the opportunity of testing a USA rope and found the first drop gave a peak force of around 12kN compared to 6 to 9kN for a range of European ropes.  No idea what is going on, but the rope stiffness was notable in tying large knots.  Some time perhaps I should look at differences in standards - can any one advise on the USA and Canadian scene?

PS - Voidage as calculated by comparing the weight of a unit length of a rod of nylon to that of the rope and then fill it with water.  Perhaps someone would like to do the calculation?

 

[Fulk]

Well . . . according to the I'net the density of nylon is 1.15 g/cc, so a 10 cm rod of solid nylon, 10 mm in diameter, weighs 9.032 g. According to a Marlow info sheet I have, 10 cm of their 10 mm rope weighs 6.32 g. So this implies that the pore space is equivalent to 2.712 g (nylon), which is equivalent to 2.358 cc, or 2.358m g water, or 37.3% (of the rope's weight). OK? 

 

[Amy]

There are a lot of ropes used in the USA for caving, what in particular did you use? What exactly info are you looking for?

I really would be interested in one of ya'all re-doing the experiment in the link I reposted about the pressure washing with what you'd consider a typical caving rope over there. Curious on the sheeth difference thing. Or if you're too scared to feel free to send me some used dirty rope and I'll do the experiment!

Perhaps the spinning thing was meant to refer to a top loader washer with the spindle in the middle? Those'll make a mess with the rope.

 

[cavermark]

Amy, when you say pressure washer, do you mean these kind of things:

http://www.karcher.co.uk/uk/Products/Home__Garden/Pressure_washers/Medium_class.htm

If so, the rope type is irrelevent - on a high presure they can cut through all sorts of materials.