Is the BCA anchor scheme working as well as it could be?

[Simon Wilson]

I counted about 120-something anchors on the CSCC anchor page which isn't really that many. That could probably at least double if more caves with spits were bolted or revolted, but still not lots.

Which other caves have spits? apart from Rhino Right Hand rote?  :-\

Twin verts in Eastwater.

Mike

So we have some anchors required in Eastwater and some in Rhino. If we generously say around a dozen anchors in each that makes a total of around 24 anchors required for Mendip.

Does anybody have an idea if any anchors are required in Wales?

 

[andrewmcleod]

So we have some anchors required in Eastwater and some in Rhino. If we generously say around a dozen anchors in each that makes a total of around 24 anchors required for Mendip.

There are definitely more than that - we were looking in MU5 the other day for easy SRT caves on Mendip and had to reject quite a few for being on spits e.g. Spider Hole. I think the top of Thrupe Lane Swallet is supposed to be on spits? There are no eco anchors in Eastwater at all; possibly the top of the 35ft pitch could do with some as well to replace the dubious old bolts (although there are naturals with increasing solidity as you go further and further away). The topic for Rhino Rift shows at least 17 spits. Rod's Pot is supposed to have spits on on one of the pots? Or at least there are not approved anchors to get to the lower series. Mangle Hole also isn't on the CSCC equipment list but is supposed to be SRT/ladder? I will try and count the spits in MU5 in popular places when I get a chance.

 

[Les W]

So we have some anchors required in Eastwater and some in Rhino. If we generously say around a dozen anchors in each that makes a total of around 24 anchors required for Mendip.

The Rhino Right Hand route has been intentionally left as spits.
There are very few routes where cavers can learn how to rig properly, rather than to "join up the dots".
As far as I know there in no plan or desire to rebolt Right Hand Route at the moment.
There is a perfectly adequate route to the bottom (Left Hand Route) that is completely on "Ecos".

However, if you were counting, I believe there is somewhere in the region of 21 bolts on the Right Hand Route...

 

[Simon Wilson]

So we have some anchors required in Eastwater and some in Rhino. If we generously say around a dozen anchors in each that makes a total of around 24 anchors required for Mendip.

The Rhino Right Hand route has been intentionally left as spits.
There are very few routes where cavers can learn how to rig properly, rather than to "join up the dots".
As far as I know there in no plan or desire to rebolt Right Hand Route at the moment.
There is a perfectly adequate route to the bottom (Left Hand Route) that is completely on "Ecos".

However, if you were counting, I believe there is somewhere in the region of 21 bolts on the Right Hand Route...

This seems to be getting increasingly confused. My question is about the possible requirement for resin anchors. I am not interested in either Spits or bolts.

In the Dales we have a substantial to-do list. That is a list of caves that don't have resin anchors but which are in need of anchors. I'm wondering about to-do lists in other regions.

Do other regions require any resin anchors?

 

[ah147]

I read the first page and abit and got bored.

So I'll just keep installing whatever bolts I want, whenever I need to.

 

[ianball11]

touchpaper lit

 

[Bob Mehew]

Melting might be worth trying, given that it apparently worked well with epoxy...
The Titanium bolt people also suggest melting (they recommend Hilti HIT RE-500 epoxy):
http://www.titanclimbing.com/Titanium%20climbing%20bolt%20installation%20guide.html

Has been tried a couple of time and just creates nasty fumes, fortunately not down a cave.  We have always used polyester resin.

 

[WarthogARJ]

Melting might be worth trying, given that it apparently worked well with epoxy...
The Titanium bolt people also suggest melting (they recommend Hilti HIT RE-500 epoxy):
http://www.titanclimbing.com/Titanium%20climbing%20bolt%20installation%20guide.html

Has been tried a couple of time and just creates nasty fumes, fortunately not down a cave.  We have always used polyester resin.

Hi, I'm on the UIAA Safety Commission. I was just starting to read some of your forum posts. Why do you use a polyester resin? The manufacturers usually suggest an epoxy type if you have water available. And it's stronger than polyester.

If you've been getting good results with a polyester then fine, but but I was surprised to see that. We're recommending that climbers use resins with an EOTA ETA, and they test for things like longevity, contact with water as well as strength.

There are alternatives to the Hilti RE 500 that are cheaper.

 

[NewStuff]

Smells linger, and noxious smells stay in nasty concentrations, for far, far longer underground.  Evan a decently draughting choke will have a fraction of the airflow an exposed crag does.