Landowners - what did they ever do for us?

[royfellows]

I was walking with a friend to the Old Gang Smelt Mill in Arkengarthdale and down at the mill there were lots of vehicles. We were advised that there was shoot on. We decided to carry on to the Brandy Bottle Incline and encountered a gamekeeper who told us that there was shooting party on the track just in front, but did not attempt to stop us.
I asked him if he would like us to wait until they finished. He became very friendly and expressed his gratitude. I believe that we were on a public right of way so waiting was voluntary on our part.

He told us the beaters would be coming over the hill opposite so we said that we would gain some high ground on the side we were on and watch them. It was interesting as we had never seen a shoot before.
As the birds came over we heard the guns, and when all was quiet we went back down the hill.

There were several keepers there who were very friendly and expressed their gratitude to us very profusely. We told them that we didn't mind waiting and it had been interesting to watch.

They were very nice people.
I think Raby Estate but will stand corrected if I?m wrong.

There is a thing called give and take but maybe some people not been told about this.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I was walking with a friend to the Old Gang Smelt Mill in Arkengarthdale and down at the mill there were lots of vehicles. We were advised that there was shoot on. We decided to carry on to the Brandy Bottle Incline and encountered a gamekeeper who told us that there was shooting party on the track just in front, but did not attempt to stop us.
I asked him if he would like us to wait until they finished. He became very friendly and expressed his gratitude. I believe that we were on a public right of way so waiting was voluntary on our part.

He told us the beaters would be coming over the hill opposite so we said that we would gain some high ground on the side we were on and watch them. It was interesting as we had never seen a shoot before.
As the birds came over we heard the guns, and when all was quiet we went back down the hill.

There were several keepers there who were very friendly and expressed their gratitude to us very profusely. We told them that we didn't mind waiting and it had been interesting to watch.

They were very nice people.
I think Raby Estate but will stand corrected if I?m wrong.

There is a thing called give and take but maybe some people not been told about this.

And your point is?

 

[droid]

The point is: you don't HAVE to be confrontational. Confrontation gets confontation back, hence the bickering on here.

 

[Stu]

You don't have to be confrontational, no. Benny Rothman was though and seemed to get things done...

Just saying.

I too have encountered many a friendly shoot. It wasn't always thus. Maybe the consolidation of CRoW has shown that the great unwashed can be trusted. That or the "they" have something to be worried about.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I have just reminded myself that the discussion is about landowners, not their employees.

 

[Pitlamp]

The Ingleborough Estate has been actively working to attract tourists for at least 175 years and the estate has been virtual open access for as long as anybody can remember so it is a special case and doesn't reflect the majority of estates. If all estates were like the Ingleborough Estate then there would never have been a need for CRoW. I think if Dr. Farrer had a vote he would vote yes.

Hello Simon,

Really that was just an example; I could have quoted many occasions when other landowners had been very good with my caving friends in special circumstances.

But let's not worry too much; I'd like to bet that most folks will have posted their votes now. I'm unlikely to play any further part in this discussion until we know how the results are looking.

But can I please be clear that I meant what I said about the hard work done by various individuals; I do understand you've done this for what you feel are good reasons.

Best wishes all.

 

[Peter Burgess]

With such well-reasoned and well-respected views ( by me at least), your contributions would have been well received, but I understand why you haven't got involved till now. You have effectively expressed one of my main concerns far better than I ever could.

 

[Simon Wilson]

The point is: you don't HAVE to be confrontational. Confrontation gets confontation back, hence the bickering on here.

Nobody is being confrontational. All along the anti-CRoW people have been trying to make out that the pro people are being confrontational when we aren't.

I have been walking on grouse moors all my life; I was taken there by my father who was taken there by his father. Things have changed dramatically since CRoW and when I meet my local keeper on the moor these days we can have a friendly chat which is completely different to how it used to be. He's only doing the job that the landowner pays him to do. Part of that job is to systematically destroy the wildlife that is one of the main attractions for me and he knows that I know that.

I really don't understand what Roy Fellows was thinking when he wrote what he did. What he described was a normal everyday scene during the shooting season. Of course they would be friendly and grateful because that track is a public footpath and if they were shooting on the track then they were breaking the law. They break that law all the time and nobody bothers.

 

[droid]

Your experience of walking on Grouse moors is totally different to mine then.

I've never had an unpleasant meeting with a gamekeeper EVER. And very rarely an unpleasant meeting with a farmer.

As for your opening sentence: there are some on the ProCRoW side that would be screaming 'provocation!' at that if the accusation was reversed. 

 

[Ian Adams]

Nobody is being confrontational. All along the anti-CRoW people have been trying to make out that the pro people are being confrontational when we aren't.

That is exactly right.

I noted there were multiple posts citing pro-crow being confrontational - please would such postees substantiate claims if you want to make allegation rather than throw wild, foundless accusations into the aether.

Ian

 

[JAA]

Sorry Simon but they're not breaking any law by shooting on or over a footpath.

JAA (Ex Moorland Keeper/ Farmer and Caver )

 

[Peter Burgess]

Ian - nobody is going to do that, even if it was true, since we are discouraged from making personal accusations on this forum. The more we succeed in doing this, the less confrontational the debates will become, and the more we will achieve.

 

[Ian Adams]

Ian - nobody is going to do that, even if it was true, since we are discouraged from making personal accusations on this forum. The more we succeed in doing this, the less confrontational the debates will become, and the more we will achieve.

Excellent, no problem, no more of these then please;

The point is: you don't HAVE to be confrontational. Confrontation gets confontation back, hence the bickering on here.

And?

?. there are some on the ProCRoW side that would be screaming 'provocation!' at that if the accusation was reversed. 

Ian

 

[Peter Burgess]

I do wish you would stop telling everyone what to do, Ian, it's so confrontational.... 

 

[Hughie]

Sorry Simon but they're not breaking any law by shooting on or over a footpath.

JAA (Ex Moorland Keeper/ Farmer and Caver )

Likewise. I am unaware of such a law.

Hughie (Occasional Shooter, Farmer and Caver)

 

[Simon Wilson]

Sorry Simon but they're not breaking any law by shooting on or over a footpath.

JAA (Ex Moorland Keeper/ Farmer and Caver )

Likewise. I am unaware of such a law.

Hughie (Occasional Shooter, Farmer and Caver)

It's not an offence to shoot on a PRoW if there's nobody using it but an offence will be committed if a person's right to use the PRoW is impeded in any way.

 

[droid]

Excellent, no problem, no more of these then please;

The point is: you don't HAVE to be confrontational. Confrontation gets confontation back, hence the bickering on here.

And?

?. there are some on the ProCRoW side that would be screaming 'provocation!' at that if the accusation was reversed. 

Ian

That wasn't an attempt to goad, was it Ian?

 

[Pegasus]

Guys, please - enough now.....

 

[droid]

Totally agree.

Whatever differences there's been on here, the vote's in now, and I for one will go along with the democratic decision.

It won't be influenced by a rather insignificant spat between two rather insignificant people.

 

[Pegasus]

It won't be influenced by a rather insignificant spat between two rather insignificant people.

I repeat - Guys, please enough now!!