damian said:(possibly with a sneaky Bowline on the Bight too with one arm sharing the penultimate bolt with the butterly, if with inexperienced cavers).
todcaver said:Clear to newbies , safe , but does it also use less rope ??
JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
JoshW said:alternatively clip a carabiner in through both ears and tell them to clip into the carabiner. that might solve any remaining issues.
JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
the 'slack' could potentially pull through for a short distance but only the length that the failed bolt was from the knot, you'd end up hanging essentially from the 'ear' that went to the failed boltRichardB1983 said:If loading a single loop of the BotB is bad news - what would be the result if one of the anchors failed in a Y-hang - transferring the entire load to one of the loops and completely unweighting the other?JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
Simon Wilson said:JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
It's impossible to clip through both when it's loaded without using two cowstails.
JoshW said:Simon Wilson said:JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
It's impossible to clip through both when it's loaded without using two cowstails.
To be honest I was mainly thinking of the descent. But even on ascents I don't think I've ever had a problem. It wasn't easy and took a bit of manouvring from memory, but not impossible.
JoshW said:the 'slack' could potentially pull through for a short distance but only the length that the failed bolt was from the knot, you'd end up hanging essentially from the 'ear' that went to the failed boltRichardB1983 said:If loading a single loop of the BotB is bad news - what would be the result if one of the anchors failed in a Y-hang - transferring the entire load to one of the loops and completely unweighting the other?JoshW said:the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
Madness said:Am I getting this BOTB issue completely wrong?
It's been proven that the knot can slip if you only clip into one loop. I've done this plenty of times and never noticed slippage.
However, if there isn't an end of rope to pull through the knot completely then you're not going to die. Surely if the BOTB is the first knot in the rope and there is a free end you tie a stopper knot to prevent slipage - afterall every one kows that bowlines slip under load.