Sludge Pit and Nine Barrows Swallet

[Peter Burgess]

The only skeleton's I have 'seen' underground were those of extremely thin cavers who were immediately put on double rations when we got back to the cabin.

 

[Dep]

I watched a TV program (Discovery cable channels) a few nights ago called "The Cave of the Glowing Skulls".
Some caves in Honduras used as re-burial sites c1000-500BC
All remains extensively calcited - stunning!

There is a stone qurry near me that has many chambers backfilled to within a foot or so of the roof.
At least 5 centuries later these are now superb formations - with forests of straw stals and clusters of stalagmite bosses.
My point being that given enough time and suitable condtions even old mines/quarries can become 'caves' full of formations.

 

[Roger W]

If I remember correctly, all sorts of remains were found buried under a series of stalagmite floors in Kent's Cavern in Torquay - it's a good few years since I was there last and I'm too lazy to go dig out the guide book...

Of course, the guys who excavated the cavern thoroughly trashed the stal floors in the process.  Was that vandalism?  :-\

 

[graham]

No it wasn't.

 

[whitelackington]

What was the reason the landowner started to refuse cavers to enter these two caves?

Is it still the same landowner?

Is he a miserable sod?    :icon_321:

 

[cap n chris]

Is he a miserable sod?    :icon_321:

Like you? 

No, actually IIRC he's dead.

 

[Les W]

No, actually IIRC he's dead.

He is indeed, but his wife still lives at the house and still insists on no access to the two above mentioned caves - It's what he wanted, etc.

It is very problematic as the original closure was in response to the SSSI wrangles of the mid 80's and access was never restored due to the landowners (mis)belief that the SSSI thing was about stealing his mineral rights. The family still maintain that there is to be no access, so the only possible hope is for a change in landowner. 

 

[Andy Sparrow]

No, actually IIRC he's dead.

He is indeed, but his wife still lives at the house and still insists on no access to the two above mentioned caves - It's what he wanted, etc.

It is very problematic as the original closure was in response to the SSSI wrangles of the mid 80's and access was never restored due to the landowners (mis)belief that the SSSI thing was about stealing his mineral rights. The family still maintain that there is to be no access, so the only possible hope is for a change in landowner. 

There was a bit more to it.  I had a good chat with the old man about 1990.  He told me with great enthusiam about exploring Goatchurch as a boy and how supportive he had initially been about having new caves opened for young people to enjoy.  However, they had found themselves over-run with minibuses full of kids and the final straw was when he found a couple lighting fires in his hay barn.  It goes to show how essential it is that group leaders keep control on the surface and ensure that children have respect for the country code and local people.  I'm sure the caves will open again one day - they are two excellent novice caves - and could earn a tidy little income at a £1 a head.

 

[graham]

Andy's right! It's those who bring minibuses full of kids out who have buggered up so much for the rest of us. 

 

[Peter Burgess]

they are two excellent novice caves - and could earn a tidy little income at a £1 a head.

True, but taking groups into caves surely has a primary objective of education, not generating pocket money for someone, however proper it is for cave owners to be recompensed for allowing strangers onto their property.

 

[Andy Sparrow]

they are two excellent novice caves - and could earn a tidy little income at a £1 a head.

True, but taking groups into caves surely has a primary objective of education, not generating pocket money for someone, however proper it is for cave owners to be recompensed for allowing strangers onto their property.

I would not argue with that.  I am simply suggesting that a future landowner would probably consider the financial return from opening the caves would make any potential visitor nuisance worthwhile.  These are two unconnected issues.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I am simply suggesting that a future landowner would probably consider the financial return from opening the caves would make any potential visitor nuisance worthwhile.

Absolutely. I'm just removing any chance of ambiguity from the situation!! Can't have cavers thinking they can make money from their pastime, now can we? 

 

[cap n chris]

Spot on. Now all we need is legislation which enforces that all services are undertaken by unremunerated amateurs - so the next time you get your teeth fixed at the dentist it should be done by an enthusiastic weirdo who just likes messing about with other people's teeth for fun. God forbid that we actually paid people who knew what they were doing.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Absolutely. All caving equipment outlets and cave book publishers to operate at cost only.

Don't get me going about dentists. I was once at the mercy of a fearsome dentist who went out of her way to find things to do. The practice threw her out after less than a year.

Strange how little work I needed on my teeth both before and after that unfortunate year.

 

[cap n chris]

I was once at the mercy of a fearsome dentist who went out of her way to find things to do.

You have my utmost sympathy. (No, seriously).

 

[whitelackington]

When wos the last time The C.S.C.C. made an approach to this family, wos it before he snuffed it or later, cos if it wos before he snuffed it, she might like to make a couple of bob out of letting "responsible adult cavers into her two caves, she could even start her own shagging permit system, oh sorry, got carried away but not far enough.

 

[Cookie]

When wos the last time The C.S.C.C. made an approach to this family, wos it before he snuffed it or later, cos if it wos before he snuffed it, she might like to make a couple of bob out of letting "responsible adult cavers into her two caves, she could even start her own shagging permit system, oh sorry, got carried away but not far enough.

Members of the Wessex have spoken to the family since, but alas without success.

I think we should make you our landowner liaison officer. No, go on. I think you would be good at it.  :bow:

 

[Les W]

When wos the last time The C.S.C.C. made an approach to this family, wos it before he snuffed it or later, cos if it wos before he snuffed it, she might like to make a couple of bob out of letting "responsible adult cavers into her two caves, she could even start her own shagging permit system, oh sorry, got carried away but not far enough.

As Mrs Pattinson is our next door neighbour (Wessex), We have good relations with her. Even so and despite much negotiations She (and her family) are adamant that they don't want to grant access to their caves. We should respect their wishes and wait until they change their minds or until the land is in the ownership of others. The caves still remain and as 16 years of closure to caver's at Fairy has shown, they aren't being harmed by our absence. 

 

[cap n chris]

We should respect their wishes

Yes, but will other cavers? - here's a question...

When was the last time Whitelackington DIDN'T make an approach to CSCC with some idea or another?.....

 

[badger]

its a real pitty that a workable solution can not be worked out with the land owner, however I can understand some of there view point if minibus loads turned up every weekend and walked across my land I do not think I would be over happy, especially as a minority will always try to push any rules or access arrangements, and quite often the very same people will be the rude ones when confronted, politeness and good manners generally go a long way and cost nothing. Hopefully and when the time may come the landowners will come around to some form of controlled access