Superstitious cavers

[owd git]

He was being reminded to pay respect, and leave good beer etc' on the auspicious dates ( the day before I visit said / various mines.)
P. S. all offerings vegitarian.
T'owd Git

 

[bograt]

I recall reading in an old directory (1700's) whistling awakes T'Owd man and he takes away the ore before you can get it, hence "whistling away the ore".

 

[gus horsley]

I had a weird experience in Old Gunnislake Mine adit on a solo trip.  As I was wading along I had the distinct feeling that someone was following me.  I know that water sloshing around in such places can give that impression anyway but this felt different and I couldn't stop myself from turning round every so often to see if someone else was in there.  Eventually, at a small stope, I stopped to have a look at the mineralogy and the eerie feeling came back again, followed a few seconds later by a deafening bang and a large section of wall fell away and disintegrated on the floor.  No, it wasn't someone playing about with explosives, although that thought did occur to me.  Fighting the urge to do a runner I looked at what had been revealed: some interesting secondary copper minerals and 6" wolframite crystals in fluorite.  On the way out I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary.  I've never had anything like that before or since.

 

[SamT]

Worst one I've had was in the entrance series to Bagshawe on a solo trip, T'owd Man was proper following me, either that or Old Man Revell.  Thats when I had the tap on the shoulder.  Followed me all the way out,  I had goose bumps, shivers everything, really spooked.  I was washing some oversuits by the coe after exiting and he still wouldn't leave me alone.  Never really been bothered since.

 

[Slug]

The whistling taboo may have a basis in fact, the reason it's frowned upon in the theatre is because whistles were used to signal the scenery shifting bods, who pulled ropes and made big stuff move, a careless whistle might be misinterpreted as an instruction to move something big, heavy, and downright dangerous...possably onto someone smaller and squashy.  It might be that whistles were used in mines as signals too, hence the no whistling rule, which, over the years, as more modern communications came about, acquired an aire of superstitious mystery.....or it might be the Boggits.

  Apparently on Royal Navy ships, it was used as a secret code signal during some mutiny that's why it's not the done thing  for the skates.

 

[bograt]

Nope, the remains we've seen were literally only sprigs, and not positioned in a way that would facilitate ventilation.
I'll have a think AR and see if I can recall exactly where we saw them.

Browsing through Fareys 1811 guide to Derbyshire, came across a description of miners using gorse to disperse pockets of bad air by wafting it about, could this be it? I managed to copy the extract into publisher but have not worked out how to attach it here. If you P.M. your e-mail address I could pdf it to you.

 

[crickleymal]

I've had the tap on the shoulder too but only in mines not in caves. I can remember once sitting in Wigpool mine waiting for the rest of the party to return (I wasn't feeling too well) and hearing stones falling in the direction opposite to that which the others had gone. Of course it was perfectly natural but it fair made me jump it did.

 

[bograt]

Nope, the remains we've seen were literally only sprigs, and not positioned in a way that would facilitate ventilation.
I'll have a think AR and see if I can recall exactly where we saw them.

Browsing through Fareys 1811 guide to Derbyshire, came across a description of miners using gorse to disperse pockets of bad air by wafting it about, could this be it? I managed to copy the extract into publisher but have not worked out how to attach it here. If you P.M. your e-mail address I could pdf it to you.

Been having a play, lets see if this works;

 

[bograt]

Or even;

I think I've got it now!

 

[SamT]

Very interesting!! Thanks Bograt.

I need to do a couple of trips to see if I can re-locate the evidence !!

 

[Roger W]

Hmm.  Sam's bits of heather seem to have been burnt rather than used as makeshift fans to move air. 

Gus - was your mine 'explosion' the result of stresses building up in the rock until something gave and the rock surface pinged off?  If so, could you have been subconsciously aware of the pressure build-up, which registered in your conscious mind as a feeling of being followed?

 

[bograt]

Once again, a drunken memory from this speleo destroyed mind - "Slickensides", Q.V. a stone produced under tension which explodes when neighbouring rock is removed, can't remember where I read it, can't be arsed to Wiki it, will do further research if anyone can be bothered to ask me.

 

[AR]

It's not all slickensides that can explode, just one particular sort known as "cracking wholes" to t'owd man which occurred in some of the Eyam Edge mines. These had a thin layer of galena on both faces of the vein ("looking-glass slickensides"), and apparently if you ran a pick down the spar in the centre of the vein, you'd hear creaking and cracking noises which were your cue to retreat to a safe distance, as the vein was about to explode. It seems there was stress within the vein structure which didn't take much to release, and there are recorded instances of miners being injured by these blow-outs. More details in Jim Rieuwerts' "Glossary of Derbyshire Lead Mining Terms" for those interested.....

 

[gus horsley]

Blow-outs usually occurred when mines were working and are due to stress release following blasting etc.  A spectacular one occurred in one of the Great Flat Lode mines near Camborne following an experimental detonation of 5 tons (yes that's the right amount) of gunpowder in the 1850's.  Not only did it demolish several cottages on the surface (about 1500ft above) but a huge rift opened explosively in the floor of a level, killing three miners.  However, the experience in Old Gunnislake Mine wasn't on that scale and the level dates from about 1900 - having thought about it I wonder if old stopes above the level had collapsed recently, increasing the pressure on the central part of the lode below, leading to the (feeble by comparison) "blow-out".