cap n chris
Well-known member
damo8604 said:
This one is in Palencia, Cantabria.
UK, cave training way behind the curve?
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
This one is in Palencia, Cantabria.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Cap'n Chris said:
They're actually surprisingly versatile, with a bit of imagination. But folk who dislike arboreal practice areas can easily find what they want in an old quarry.
Don't get me wrong Chris - I can see the advantages of a special facility. It's just that if caving moves in this direction - and lots of big artificial training areas become seen as necessary and the norm - they have to be paid for. One of the great things about caving is that it's such an inexpensive activity to get into. It'd be such a shame if that were to change.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
Fully see where you're coming from there Pitlamp and I have no issue with what you write; I do think that there is a risk of a widening between amateur/club and instructed caving though, especially if the latter utilise these kind of facilities (where available
) to run through a larger range of roped techniques than might otherwise be available from those who have taken to the trees.
martinm
New member
We also used to belay the rope to the gate in the background of my photo, then over the scaff belay in our tree and practice traversing sloping Tyroleans. That practice helped me and two others out from the bottom of the 3rd (I think) pitch in Meregill Hole when the stream started flooding! That was scary.
One of the party was inadequately dressed and got really cold and could barely use his SRT kit, so me and my mate had to pull the rope diagonally out of the water and prusick up the rope. My mate first to help the cold one then the last one up (me) got a right-drenching. I could barely see my SRT gear let alone do owt with it. But we got out, phew...
The moral:- even practice in a tree can help out enormously in certain situations...
(This was back in the 80's, btw, I daresay the belays in there now allow you to rig out of the water, just in case.)
That was scary.One of the party was inadequately dressed and got really cold and could barely use his SRT kit, so me and my mate had to pull the rope diagonally out of the water and prusick up the rope. My mate first to help the cold one then the last one up (me) got a right-drenching. I could barely see my SRT gear let alone do owt with it. But we got out, phew...
The moral:- even practice in a tree can help out enormously in certain situations...
(This was back in the 80's, btw, I daresay the belays in there now allow you to rig out of the water, just in case.)
That practice helped me and two others out from the bottom of the 3rd (I think) pitch in Meregill Hole when the stream started flooding!
I bet it was. The third pitch is now bolted with a traverse high up in the roof, so it should be a better proposition in wet conditions, but I imagine you could still get quite wet there, and the fourth pitch is also likely to be wet, especially near the top.
Apropos of which, I went down Meregill a few days after a poor soul died in a flood in Sunset as a result of a violent thunderstorm, and we were utterly gob-smacked to see a nice neat ring around the fourth-pitch shaft, about 50 feet up, above which the rock was clean, below which it was liberally strewn with fresh flood debris . . . . which implies that all the rest of the cave was submerged. I guess the height of the water above the sump must have been around 100 feet.
martinm
New member
Fulk said:
Wow, glad we didn't get as far as descending the 4th pitch then. We did look at it, lol. But decided not to descend it, (cos of our cold party member), luckily as it happened, as the stream started flooding on the way back out! You've sure gotta be careful up there...
graham
New member
mmilner said:
You have. I remember a night we were called out to a rescue there. A group were trapped by flooding & the rescue was only called out 'cos some other guys, who had met them on the hill didn't meet them in the pub.
When contact was - eventually - made with them, the message came up "We're OK, but not sure about the other group below us." "What other group?"
Nobody knew they were there ...
No not really but I certainly advocate surface practice in specific techniques like SRT & - come to that- ladders & lifelines.
Maybe I'm spoilt but I have the advantage of having received considerable training & support (including surface sessions) from fellow club-members over many years and still regard this as the best way.
Nevertheless there are people who enter caving without such support, and if they've no-one reliable enough not to teach poor techniques, cave care & ethics etc within clubs to whom they can turn they can at least muddy the appropriate palms with silver. Can't they, O Thread Originator, eh?
Mind you, whether they would is another question: many who have asked me "How do I take up caving / join your club?" evaporate the moment they realise I need the commitment & initiative from them merely to ring me & arrange to Go Caving! Hardly likely to take up any formal training then. In fact I was contacted recently by a friend's friend who proved to be one of a group expecting me to lead them on caving trips on Portland. They'd ventured into one or two, but I heard no more when I said I'd cave with them but would neither "lead" nor could supply them all with proper kit. I suggested they ask Mr Sparrow or Mr. Binding & try caving with them, on Mendip. I heard no more - I don't suppose anyone else has either.
it's not UK Caving Training that's behind curves or any other clich?s - it's the would-be novices who are.
Maybe I'm spoilt but I have the advantage of having received considerable training & support (including surface sessions) from fellow club-members over many years and still regard this as the best way.
Nevertheless there are people who enter caving without such support, and if they've no-one reliable enough not to teach poor techniques, cave care & ethics etc within clubs to whom they can turn they can at least muddy the appropriate palms with silver. Can't they, O Thread Originator, eh?
Mind you, whether they would is another question: many who have asked me "How do I take up caving / join your club?" evaporate the moment they realise I need the commitment & initiative from them merely to ring me & arrange to Go Caving! Hardly likely to take up any formal training then. In fact I was contacted recently by a friend's friend who proved to be one of a group expecting me to lead them on caving trips on Portland. They'd ventured into one or two, but I heard no more when I said I'd cave with them but would neither "lead" nor could supply them all with proper kit. I suggested they ask Mr Sparrow or Mr. Binding & try caving with them, on Mendip. I heard no more - I don't suppose anyone else has either.
it's not UK Caving Training that's behind curves or any other clich?s - it's the would-be novices who are.
cap n chris
Well-known member
NigelG said:
Coincidence??? I'm spending the whole week training someone who has ventured underground in Portland very many times who wishes now to progress their personal caving. Six varied caves in two regions, so far, with an array of relevant techniques, and with a further two days to go. As per usual a heavy emphasis on conservation, land owner relations, formations/hazard awareness, planning etc. rather than just whooping and hollerin' and throwing mud around.