Hay,

Right I have a problem using my Pantin, it is a left foot one, but I don't think that would be why it slips like it does. The issue I'm having is when jugging on long pitches which is the only time I really use it (or try too), its generally fine to start with but it soon starts slipping, the teeth aren't catching into the rope, so as I go to stand my left leg just drops again. Its not dangerous just incredibly annoying. I'm going to take a guess its probably because I'm not wearing wellies but a pair of boots (La Sportiva, Trango S Evo's, i cant imagine anything worse than wellies in this heat and often humidity underground) so it might be because its sitting at an odd angle on my foot. Iv tried adjusting it, forward and back but it still does it, also up and down but still no joy 

Has anybody else had this problem? Or have any ideas as to why it is happening? I'm about to give up with it until I return to old blighty and don my wellies and thermals again, see if I get along with it better there.

Thanks 

Joe90 said:

Its not dangerous just incredibly annoying.

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I'm not actually sure about this, we've seen some terrifying damage to the sheath on ropes during expedition over the last few years, often near pitch heads, and I'm deeply suspicious that it is due to people whose pantins are slipping and then digging in suddenly with their teeth rather than by the cam action. If you did those sort of shock loads with your croll or hand hammer you would scare yourself, as it's just your foot thrashing around I don't think you have quite the same level of care. Legs are terrifyingly strong.

For your particular circumstance, it really depends on the angle of your foot. I'm not sure if I can remember exactly what I do if it starts slipping (it's in my muscle memory, not conscious!) but I think I incline my toes down and roll my foot to the outside so the pantin is slightly underneath. Similarly, when I pass a deviation / rebelay I think I adopt a pose that makes it look almost as if I'm standing on the rope that disappearing below / sideways me.

You may also want to consider adding Potholer's modification of an (instantly removeable) bungee snoop attached to the buckle and pushed through the hole in the pantin. Keeps the cam against the rope, and also makes it impossible for the pantin to detach from the rope accidentally.
I can take a photo later today if you don't understand what I mean, it's obvious when you see it.

I'd be interested to see that Jarv so if you could post it here it'd be good. Thanks.

I'd be interested to see the pic on here too. It's not the webbing strap that goes through the two slots that it catching and causing it to come open?

Ah yes you make a very good point there that it could be damaging the rope as it bites in, fortunately i take it off once it has started doing this as it annoys me. So i don't think i can of done too much.

No its not gripping on the tape as it passes through, well there are no signs that it is. I think it is down to the angle of it. It seems to work well to start with, i think maybe because of the shape of my boot it might move slightly after i have been using it for a while which causes it to slip? Its usually fine for the first 40m or so then it will start playing up. The instep on the boot is quite far forward which may contribute to it getting a bit of an angle after use. I don't know 

Your suggestion of the cord in to stop it opening sounds good, I seem to remember reading that on another post before.

The thing I use is this:

5mm diameter shockcord, with a bowline-on-the-bight knot in the end.
The two loops from the knot push through the Pantin hole, and give very good resistance against the cam opening accidentally, but are soft enough for the cam to be manually pushed open to load/release the rope.

Having had past experience frog-walking using a standard jammer, I found the 'automatic' release of the Pantin annoying, especially on pitches where the rope was fastened off a long way to the side at the bottom, (which we seemed to have quite a few of in our current Slovenian pothole), and above deviations.
Especially on deep exits, I do like to get a manoeuvre (passing deviation, getting onto a rope, passing rebelay) over with and just turn the mind off for the next climb, rather than climbing single-leg for a while wondering when I can put a Pantin on without it coming off.

It's very easy to pull the cord out of the hole if/when the auto-release is actually wanted (maybe a seriously tight pitch?), but is pretty secure otherwise - the natural spring in the ends of the loops makes them try and stay wider than the hole.

One downside is that someone climbing an off-vertical rope might be tempted to climb with the Pantin foot forward, increasing wear on the front of the chest jammer frame.
On the other hand, climbing with a low-jammer-wear technique with the Pantin foot properly back is less likely to result in unwanted disconnections, so there's some swings-and-roundabouts there since it makes good-technique climbing of slightly side-pulled ropes easier.

Another positive is if there's a very wet pitch, or a pitch with a very wet section, it's possible to run like hell up the rope without worrying about it coming off however much you thrash around.

H'm - you're not just good at making lights are you?

Nice one.

Cheers, ill give that a go. still like to try and find out why it does it though. Is it only me that thinks it could be my boots making it sit at a funny angle?

Mmm, well Potholer has cornered the quality photos 8 )
But I did take one of the Pantin on my boot. I seem to recall that when I went from wellies --> boots I adjusted the under-foot Pantin strap to make it shorter + hold the Pantin against the edge of the sole.

I agree that it's extremely easy to release this mod, you just grope for the bit of bungee and yank on it. I leave it on for 90% of trips, and just detach the rope by hand (usually once I've cleared the pitch head).

     

Gallery for bigger shots: https://picasaweb.google.com/103383171386197915463/PantinBungeeMod#

i would try shorterning the stap that runs under your foot lots of the people i see haveing probles seem to have then  round there ankle somewere not there foot as the name suggests.

that said i make my own strap as its just not worth the money for a replacement (sorry petzl but you mus know its robbery)

i am away form home now but will try and put together some how to pics as its only about 60p's woth of rucsak strap and 3 knots (rated sling is too think and coses the cam to stick open)
 

You could try a CMI foot ascender. It is like the croll and other ascenders in that it locks onto the rope. I'ts a bit heavier of a foot ascender but I like it better than the pantin. Easy to take on and off rope, the teeth on it are nice and not as rough as some of the Petzl stuff. They are also cheaper than a pantin....at least here. CMI foot ascenders run $60-$65, Pantins run $75-$80. Actually overall I like the CMI gear. Petzls seem to have the sharpest and most angled teeth of any brand. I'm slowly switching gear over...and CMI have lifetime warentee. It's the last ascender you'll ever need to buy.

Thank you, interestingly the picture of the CMI footjammer has it on a right boot with the cam fulcrum a the front of the jammer body. I wonder if I have the pantin on the wrong foot  :

CMI ascenders have smaller teeth and a selling point is that they are more forgiving to the rope but the corollary is that they will be more prone to slipping on muddy/ier rope than Petzl ascenders. CMI ascenders also appear to have the elegance and design subtlety of a primary school art exhibition.

Funny that, I thought they looked a bit more robust because of their rugged no nonsense appearance.  not that I could dent a Petzl jammer without serious effort, or a big fall. 

Twisted a stop once, dropped it off the over the top route of Heron Pot.  Still use it though.

If this were Twitter I believe #cheepskate  would be inorder

ianball11 said:

I thought they looked a bit more robust because of their rugged no nonsense appearance. 

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Yes. Like a Panzer.

cap 'n chris said:

CMI ascenders have smaller teeth and a selling point is that they are more forgiving to the rope but the corollary is that they will be more prone to slipping on muddy/ier rope than Petzl ascenders. CMI ascenders also appear to have the elegance and design subtlety of a primary school art exhibition.

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CMI's work well on shitty 10mm Talon mudcaked rope without slippage. Although I will note they do not cam as well on rope that has lost the roundness and is more ovular in shape as Petzl cams will. But then again if you have ovular rope instead of nice round rope not sure you should be using it...lol

ianball11 said:

Thank you, interestingly the picture of the CMI footjammer has it on a right boot with the cam fulcrum a the front of the jammer body. I wonder if I have the pantin on the wrong foot  :

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LOL yeah maybe check that...

Wonder how CMI ascenders get on with class B (caving) ropes, the majority of which are 8.5mm-9.5mm.

What are the CMI ascenders like for sliding up barely-weighted rope - is the 'drag' similar to a Pantin?

I don't know Chris, next vertical practice I'll see if anyone has some of that to try it out on...we don't exactly use that rope here often. I'll try and have an answer for you on that this weekend. I've used it on PMI EZ bend pit (11mm), PMI pit rope (11mm) and PMI max wear pit (11mm) and PMI Talon (10mm).

Potholer, properly adjusted I dont have any issue after about 3-4 steps total on my ropewalker which puts about 2-3 feet under me. I self-start holding the rope under the foot before that. Sometimes dont even need to do that, feeds fine. I have less issue with it than I did the pantin. Pantin seemed to drag or pop off the rope until I got about 20-30 feet under me.