mid rope Y hang - prefered knot ?
- Thread starter todcaver
- Start date
For me it depends on where the anchors are in relation to the rope coming from the traverse line ... if above, I use some kind of y-hang knot (Bowline on the Bight etc) and if level or below the traverse line, I use butterflies (possibly with a sneaky Bowline on the Bight too with one arm sharing the penultimate bolt with the butterly, if with inexperienced cavers).
aricooperdavis
Moderator
I'm a great fan of butterflies, so I use them pretty much everywhere, mid rope y-hang included (although I may alter this depending on the layout of the pitch I guess).
aricooperdavis
Moderator
And if I were with andrew I'd use clove hitches just to piss him off. /s
caving_fox
Active member
"bunny ears" which is the double fig8. I'm sure it has a proper name ....
Occasionally a single fig 8 and a butterfly, but only if the anchor placement seems to demand it.
Occasionally a single fig 8 and a butterfly, but only if the anchor placement seems to demand it.
After watching videos about bowlines on the bight slipping when clipped into one side I am thinking (other than bunny ears) that a figure of 8 on one bolt with an alpine equalizing the other bolt is the only bomb proof easy to tie option ? Clear to newbies , safe , but does it also use less rope ??
JoshW
Well-known member
the fuss over the BOTB is a bit odd if I'm honest. It was always made incredibly clear when I first started SRT that whenever clipping on a BOTB to clip in through both 'ears'.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
alternatively clip a carabiner in through both ears and tell them to clip into the carabiner. that might solve any remaining issues.
make it clear when leading a group of newbies, clip here or die should do it.
alternatively clip a carabiner in through both ears and tell them to clip into the carabiner. that might solve any remaining issues.
Mark Wright
Active member
todcaver said:
Measure it.
Mark
Simon Wilson
New member
JoshW said:
It's impossible to clip through both when it's loaded without using two cowstails.
JoshW said:
That would put a three way load on the carabiner.
Better to rig it so that people can clip into any loop and be safe.
I've had another look at the fusion knot and I'm going to start using it.
RichardB1983
Member
JoshW said:
If loading a single loop of the BotB is bad news - what would be the result if one of the anchors failed in a Y-hang - transferring the entire load to one of the loops and completely unweighting the other?
CatM
Moderator
JoshW said:
The problem comes when it's not made clear. It's not just a case of instructing newbies. When I first learnt to cave with the uni club, Y-hangs were all rigged using butterflies, or occassionally a fig 8 bunny ears - it's what everyone in the club used. Years later when I started caving with different people and first came across a BOTB, I had no idea I was meant to clip into both loops and just treated it like a normal bunny ears. As I was an "experienced" caver, no-one had thought to tell me...
Simon Wilson
New member
JoshW said:
'Practically' impossible.
Simon Wilson
New member
JoshW said:
I think it depends which side failed. One side would slip the length of the loop and the other would hold.
Depending on the configuration of the Y you might hardly even notice but in some cases you could generate a significant peak load and that would be onto a jammer of you were ascending - not a good idea.
Madness
New member
Am I getting this BOTB issue completely wrong?
It's been proven that the knot can slip if you only clip into one loop. I've done this plenty of times and never noticed slippage.
However, if there isn't an end of rope to pull through the knot completely then you're not going to die. Surely if the BOTB is the first knot in the rope and there is a free end you tie a stopper knot to prevent slipage - afterall every one kows that bowlines slip under load.
It's been proven that the knot can slip if you only clip into one loop. I've done this plenty of times and never noticed slippage.
However, if there isn't an end of rope to pull through the knot completely then you're not going to die. Surely if the BOTB is the first knot in the rope and there is a free end you tie a stopper knot to prevent slipage - afterall every one kows that bowlines slip under load.
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
Madness said:
I think the set up is like this:
(optional?) traverse line -> BOTB two loops into two bolts --\/ rope down pitch.
If you clip into just one of the loops (and the 'wrong' loop) then you can pull rope _up_ from the rope hanging down the pitch (not from the traverse line/free end).
