Callout times

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littlebear

Guest
When someone you DON'T know writes their "time out" up on the club board - is it daft to assume that's a last-expected-time-out?  :-\

Should you check that they are quoting their last time out? o_O

A group was 1h:40m late and I didn't call rescue. I had assessed that they were fine correctly but should I have called for rescue? :D :confused: :D :blink: :cautious: :doubt: :cry:
 
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Sid Weighells Dog

Member
In a word, yes. In several words, I don't want to make you feel bad but yes. It's a tricky decision that would benefit from a rule of thumb: at SWCC (other people can advise about other clubs) the 'time out' on the ticket is the group's own latest estimated time out. Rescue is called one hour after this time, no matter what. Since you can have no idea what's happening underground, you can't really assess what the problem is. Whether you're right or not will be at chance. IIRC I've called rescue three times by this rule: twice the party arrived back while rescue personnel were still arriving at the club and once a preliminary search team got underground and met the party on their way out. Forget any embarrassment (yours or theirs) at calling rescue, better that than making the wrong call and making a bad situation worse. I've also been in a situation where the general attitude (despite the party being well overdue) was 'no-one calls rescue during daylight'. Fortunately, there was a happy ending but it's not IMHO the best rule of thumb...(ellipsis, I know. I know).
 
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Sid Weighells Dog

Member
l also meant to say that no, it's not daft to assume that it's a last expected time out, not at all. Really, I should write all my posts out longhand on foolscap paper using a fountain pen, that way I wouldn't forget anything. Dang this interweb thingy. Has anyone seen my teeth?
 
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Geoff R

New member
We recently had a potential call out;  our cabin has bad mobile reception but the callout was written on a big white board and well understood, based on “arrival back at the cabin”.  It was a car drive to the cave.  No party arrived back,  so some minutes after the appointed shout time we walked to our cars to drive to get a network signal.

To relief they arrived as we were leaving. They had been seriously delayed by a bad traffic accident and had left various mobile messages for when we did log on and were waiting for us to call them  (we had no signal remember). 

For sure we left with the sole intent to MOST CERTAINLY call cave rescue at the agreed time if we had recvd no message or not been unable to raise them. To cover an obvious loop-hole we had left a very clear message for them to immediately CANCEL cave rescue if we had within minutes missed each other. 

BUT it did make me think it would have been a help to have had their car reg number.

In my view the question of callout time and required actions should NEVER be in doubt



 
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dunc

New member
As said above the time-out is the groups time-out and I would imagine most people leave one hour after that before calling out rescue - or perhaps when the hour is nearly up (if possible) checking the entrance/parking spot etc to see if they are out or close to being out.
 
graham

graham

New member
Slightly different situation as it's based on telephone contacts & not a notice board, but I frequently act as call out for our club's parties underground. When agreeing a time with them the decision is simple. If they do not contact me by time X then that is the time at which I call the rescue.

Simple, not capable of misunderstanding, and they know that I will do it.

This has caused someone to leave the rest of the party at the entrance to run back to the car, grab the mobile & leg it uphill until they've got a decent signal, but it does make them very good at estimating trip length.

And BTW it is worth pointing this out, though I have said it before; DO NOT rely on text messages. There is absolutely no guarantee they will get through quickly.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
littlebear said:
A group was 1h:40m late and I didn't call rescue. .......should I have called for rescue?
Click to expand...

Put it this way.

If you had broken limbs how reassuring would it be to find out afterwards that someone delayed alerting rescue by 1h:40m?
 
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Peter Burgess

New member
It sounds like it needs to be made crystal clear that the time put on a "time-out" note is the call-out time. If a group wanted to give themselves an hour's grace they would need to aim to be out an hour before that time. This would be their decision and responsibility.
 
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racingsnake

New member
If in doubt call em out.
I can speak with experience when I say that rescue teams would allways prefer to be called out as early as possible.
Knowone likes bringing bodies out. And in cold wet caves especially minutes can make that difference. The worst you will suffer for a false shout is a little bit of red face especially if the party in question are in the pub. So the answer is use a bit of common, check where possible but if in doubt there is no doubt

And be thankfull that we don't pay for the CRO'S in the UK
 
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Geoff R

New member
.
Peter Burgess said:
It sounds like it needs to be made crystal clear that the time put on a "time-out" note is the call-out time. If a group wanted to give themselves an hour's grace they would need to aim to be out an hour before that time. This would be their decision and responsibility.
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Peter, I agree. 

(In our case we knew both the time they were expected back at the cabin and knew the time we agreed to make the Shout .... and the time that pub dinner was booked!). 

I guess its easy to get a little confusion and misundertanding of what will happen and what is expected of the call-out person if this is not cleared up in advance or people get lax.

so clear so simple ...

graham said:
Slightly different situation as it's based on telephone contacts & not a notice board, but I frequently act as call out for our club's parties underground. When agreeing a time with them the decision is simple. If they do not contact me by time X then that is the time at which I call the rescue.

Simple, not capable of misunderstanding, and they know that I will do it.
Click to expand...

 
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Dep

Guest
Whenever I make or leave a call-out I always arrange two times.
The expected out time - and the emergency time.
People are expected out for the first and the second time is a phone CRO time.
What littlebear describes is worrying - either her 'advisers' or the party-leader want a kick up the arse!
 
ttxela

ttxela

New member
Dep said:
Whenever I make or leave a call-out I always arrange two times.
The expected out time - and the emergency time.
People are expected out for the first and the second time is a phone CRO time.
What littlebear describes is worrying - either her 'advisers' or the party-leader want a kick up the arse!
Click to expand...

I'm sure I've read in several books to do it this way,  though a single time seems simpler, what does one do between the two times if a party is late?
 
badger

badger

Active member
1, if its a group you do not know you call out if not back at time X
2, within our group if not back at time X we go and check where parked and cave entrance then call out

although probably would agree should call out at time X, better to have a false alarm be embarrassed and have to buy the beer for the rest of the night :beer:
 
Piglet

Piglet

Member
At the Orpheus cottages we have a board showing the date, cave, number in group, car reg no(s), expected time out and call-out time.  We're lucky that there are usually one or two non-cavers around to keep an eye on this and we often have more than one group out at once.  :)

Trips can take much longer than you anticipate for a number of reasons, but I'm sure that CR teams aren't going to mind being called out, even if it turned out to be a false alarm... best to be safe.
 
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damian

Active member
Maybe it was my fault but I came back to the car at Easegill a year or so ago to find someone standing there saying they were just about to call out CRO. We were 10 mins after the time we had put on the board under "ETO", which I took to mean the "Estimated Time Out" rather than "Estimated Time Back". Since we were coming out of somewhere in Easegill Beck, we had a fair walk back. I had a personal call out set for 2 hours later and didn't give it a moment's thought.

I wondered at the time if I shoudn't perhaps suggest to someone in the RRCPC that the column's heading was made clearer ... and then promptly did nothing about it!
 
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Hugh Jampton

Guest
Can somebody link me to the first new subject starter here please. All I seem to be able to see is the replies. I need to read this urgently.
 
graham

graham

New member
Hugh Jampton said:
Can somebody link me to the first new subject starter here please. All I seem to be able to see is the replies. I need to read this urgently.
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The first post is at the top of this page. What's your problem?   :blink:
 
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