Antisocial media?

pwhole

Well-known member
This interview with venture capitalist, author and musician Roger McNamee on Channel 4 News tonight was interesting - about whether facebook can actually be held to account by governments (and the public) for its activities. He was an early investor in facebook, but has recently written a book on their excesses and their reach. Over the last year, I've been worried by the number of people I know, or know of, who previously had little interest in politics or any kind of radical ideas, but are now deeply-embroiled in irrational conspiracy theory - as the 'cause' of Covid, economic issues and other big problems, and seemingly unable to resist talking about it. That bothers me, partly as they never did it before, and partly as their rationalisations are so lame and so easily countered that I can only conclude it's their exposure to social media that's causing it. Obviously this can result in some rather tense conversations. Anyway, see what you think:

https://www.channel4.com/news/facebook-need-to-be-held-to-account-says-author-roger-mcnamee
 

PeteHall

Moderator
pwhole said:
Over the last year, I've been worried by the number of people I know, or know of, who previously had little interest in politics or any kind of radical ideas, but are now deeply-embroiled in irrational conspiracy theory - as the 'cause' of Covid, economic issues and other big problems, and seemingly unable to resist talking about it.

Umm... isn't that mostly just because everyone has been locked up at home with bugger all else to do than browse pointless crap on the internet and get pissed off with the world?

I'm sure social media has had some impact on this, but at the end of the day, all the government and media bullshit has been enough to drive anyone to conspiracy theories.
 

aardgoose

Member
No, it isn't a covid thing. Look at social media role in Trump's rise.  It is why he is enraged by Facebook cutting him off, because it is his cheap way to raise money and converts, and why Florida is proposing fining social media companies who ban politicians (no the 1st Amendment  doesn't help them). Despite Trump and friends violating Facebook's terms of service for years.


The problem is facebook relies on division to drive up its 'readership' and segment them and hence increase its advertising revenue...it is incentivised to be anti-social.

https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-knew-algorithms-divided-users-execs-killed-fixes-report-2020-5?r=US&IR=T


 

pwhole

Well-known member
PeteHall said:
Umm... isn't that mostly just because everyone has been locked up at home with bugger all else to do than browse pointless crap on the internet and get pissed off with the world?

Well it hasn't happened to me, in any shape or form, and I've been just as bored and internet-based as everyone else. One my friends went on a rant just the other day about how he can't trust the 'mainstream media' any more, but every other sentence referred to the BBC as liars. I don't doubt they're generally unapposed to government policy, but he seemed to think that they are actively engaged in duping the public on everything. I mentioned that there plenty of other British news outlets out there, like ITN/C4 for example, and many, many newspapers, but he didn't seem to have remembered they exist. When I asked him what he considered reliable info sources, he said facebook and twitter.
 

mikem

Well-known member
The proliferation of media gives the individual more choice, but we don't have time to filter that amount of information, so we generally stick to whatever agrees with our perceptions, & often end up getting a less rounded view of the world. But then 100 years ago we had very little choice & ended up in 2 world wars (either boom or bust seems to be the modus operandi of many populations).
 

NewStuff

New member
We have a huge array of information sources, some good, some bad. And little to no critical thinking ability in a significant percentage of the population. Social media wouldn't be a problem if people would stop and think. but they don't, and given the lack of consequences, they won't. This is not something that can be fixed short term, nor is it a recent problem that's sprung up on us. It has however, reached a seemingly "critical mass" where its is very obvious and noticeable.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
I dont do facebook and the more I hear about it the more I consider myself wise. This thread has just reinforced my opinions even further!
:LOL:
 

SamT

Moderator
Anyone seen 'The Social Network' film about facebook/Zuckerburg.

I've not btw, but happened to have a conversation about MB/MZ with someone last night on this very topic and he advised me to watch it.  He's a very level headed guy, we'll read, well informed, erudite, intelligent and I trust his opinion. 

His opinion seems to but that MZ and FB are one of the most evil things on this planet, and that MZ seems to be hell bent on taking over the world, and doesn't care if he screws over the entire global population to get there.  He seemed quite vehement of this. 

I hate facebook, but feel trapped into using it to keep in touch with a number of old friends/family and acquaintances that seem to use it regularly.

I feel now, like I need to do more reading around the topic.
 

tomferry

Well-known member
Don?t have Facebook or anything similar , I feel their absolute poison! Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned phone call  (y)
 

Speleofish

Active member
Going back to the original post, I'm surprised by the number of people I would previously have described as broad-minded who now distrust almost all of the mainstream media. I can understand taking against The Mail or the Telegraph if you're of a left wing persuasion or disagreeing with the Guardian or the Mirror if you're more to the right. However, these people seem to consider all the printed press and the BBC and ITV to be irretrievably biased and unreliable. What's interesting is that they are rather less consistent about their new sources of news - though a disturbing number seem to like Russia Today....
 

mikem

Well-known member
The real problem is the lack of trust the political parties have created.

I don't think Zuckerberg wants to take over the world, I do think a lot of powerful people are troubled by the influence he has. He also has a lot of people working for him who are pushing to create their own fortunes, which is what is probably driving FB's less desirable sides:
https://www.forbes.com/profile/mark-zuckerberg/?sh=21674813e06d
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Down and beyond said:
Don?t have Facebook or anything similar , I feel their absolute poison! Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned phone call  (y)

I have been trying to track down an old caver about a project he used to work on. He's quite a reclusive character and none of his old mates have heard from him for years and the phone numbers I have been provided no longer work. I was able to track down his brother on Facebook and I'm now in touch. This isn't something that could be replaced with a good old fashioned phone call.

It might be evil, but it's pretty useful at times, which is why we all keep using it...
 

PeteHall

Moderator
Fulk said:
which is why we all enough of us keep using it
Really?

Is that better?

It works because enough people use it. It's convenient and there isn't an equally convenient alternative.

A friend recently decided to purge himself of all Zuckerberg influence and it's a total pain in the arse now he isn't on the group WhatsApp, because that's where everyone else is.
 

ttxela2

Active member
I dunno, seems to me I see very little objectionable being produced by Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the like directly, yes they have algorithms to steer you towards advertising and point you towards content they think you'll engage with based on previous activity but beyond that they are just a medium for communication.

Unfortunately if you shut down all social media tomorrow the bullies, racists, mysoginists etc. won't all disappear, they'll still be out there with those thoughts and tendancies in their head. What these platforms have done is strip a lot of inhibitions away and show a lot of people for who they really are.

Much like asking a close friend "I'd really like to know what you think" you may not, in fact, really like what they think.....

Social media enable you to do that on a global scale.


 

aardgoose

Member
The problem is facebook and others have allowed gaming by vast numbers of false accounts, so they actively direct people to connect with and amplify conspiracy theories and other disinformation, see QANON etc. 

They just don't direct people towards their interests, the algorithms actively direct people to more extreme content because that gets more clicks.  This has been documented by facebook, but they won't stop it, because it is profitable. Youtube has similar issues.

Facebook isn't a neutral party, it actively promotes division and hatred because that gets it more money.
 

Ian P

Administrator
Staff member
SamT said:
Anyone seen 'The Social Network' film about facebook/Zuckerburg.

It is a fascinating and educational film. Using FB after watching it feels a bit different.

Using FB / social media is like most things in life. Used well it is a useful resource. FB can be a wealth of useful information. I prefer to ?manage it? rather than take the ?I don?t do FB? stance. Each to their own.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
However you manage it, it's still tracking your every move; this is quite sinister.

'Fraid I'm still firmly in the "I'm not a Zuckerberg Zombie" camp.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
I thought that FB was a data-mining operation that makes vast amounts of money by selling that data to anyone and everyone who can afford to pay for it, masquerading as:
just a medium for communication
.
 
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