Author Topic: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016  (Read 4032 times)

Offline UKMC

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Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« on: July 12, 2016, 01:20:22 pm »
GOYDEN POT, Lofthouse, Nidderdale, North Yorkshire
05-06-16
DIVERS: Cristian CRISTEA, Ewan CAMERON

The trip was organised by Ewan as part of the UKMC AGM. Ewan has been many times in the dry parts of this cave, but never had the opportunity to go beyond sump 1.



Both divers headed inside the cave with a 2l and 3l cylinder each, and after a short walk reached sump 1.



Cristian dived first relining the sump, in good visibility, swimming downstream trying to keep up ahead of the silt clouds. Not long into the sump, a boulder slope was reached which lead to the exit in Lower River Passage. Ewan followed shortly, and both divers continued ahead following the main stream. Another sump was soon encountered, named Sump 1b, initially thinking it’s sump 2. Cristian dived first in a roomy wide bedding plane, lining the sump for about 12 metres, when an exit was made in a vertical rift, where the way forward was partially blocked by flood debris.



As the sump didn’t meet the sump 2 description, both divers thought it could have been a new one formed by the recent floods. Although the northern sump index doesn’t  mention the existence of it, it has been found that this was a known sump, never dived, as it was always bypassed by a dry passage next to it.
 The divers carried on following the stream reaching sump 2a, which had the rope hanging down broken, but due to low water there was an airspace and an easy duck to sumps 2b+c.



Short tugs on the existing rope at the start of the sumps showed that the rope it’s not broken. Cristian dived first in poor visibility, and found the rope to end between a boulder and ceiling, where it probably got snagged and broken on one of the last floods. Cristian tied new line just before the boulder and continued another 2 metres to surface.



Ewan failed to follow, so Cristian made a return dive to find out that his new line had slipped into the same place with the old rope, between the boulder and ceiling, fact that didn’t  help Ewan finding his way forward. A quick rearrangement of the line and both divers passed sumps 2b+c.



After an easy walk through one of the biggest chambers in Goyden, the divers arrived at the base of sump 3.



With limited gas reserves and little line left, Cristian started the dive heading through the middle of the passage in a wide bedding plane. In poor visibility, Cristian met a constriction, with roomier passages on both sides. Near the constriction, a small airbell was found. Cristian followed the left hand passage for few more metres, which proved to be too narrow. Due to reaching gas limits, the right side passage was not checked anymore. Both divers made an enjoyable return with Ewan showing Cristian different parts of the dry cave.



All laid line was removed to avoid any future hazards produced by possible floods.



Both divers surfaced in a beautiful sunny weather.


« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 01:41:57 pm by UKMC »

Offline UKMC

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 02:19:14 pm »

Online rhychydwr1

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 03:09:07 pm »
Any sign of Brian Kerr?


Offline Alex

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 05:19:58 pm »
There is an easy bypass to sumps 1a and b. However it has silted up and the only current bypass requires SRT. We will probbably get round to digging out the bypass again if we ever remember!
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Cristian

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 05:37:26 pm »
Probably still easier via sump 1 with diving kit? Planning to return if weather holds up this summer

Online Swallowneck

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 05:49:53 pm »
Hmm, easy bypass. I must remember that next time I'm pushing the drill bag though the connection with my head. The trip last year with RG's bottles was even better. Sump 1 has to be the preferred option if you are diving.
Interesting how the OP missed the way on and dived 1b in Goyden 2
Nice report.

Online Goydenman

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 07:52:28 pm »
There is an easy bypass to sumps 1a and b. However it has silted up and the only current bypass requires SRT. We will probbably get round to digging out the bypass again if we ever remember!

Sorry Alex you getting confused. There is huge way around sump 1b big gallery (Goyden 2 where you spotted your dig). Gargett way is a bypass to sump 1 only and yes silted up at present.

Love the report and photos guys

Offline EwanCameron

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2016, 08:59:47 pm »
 :o love my face in that photo

ace trip going to be good getting back in there to see if we can get to sump 4 and also to replace ropes on sump 2  :beer2:
Caving anyone ? Always up for a caving trip - Who the f&%k was sick in Eldon Hole ?

Offline Les W

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 09:16:07 pm »
and also to replace ropes on sump 2  :beer2:

Better off using Hawser in sumps, kernmantle will act as a trap for the unwary once it abrades. There have been a couple of near misses in Swildon's Sump 1 with kernmantle...
I'm a very busy person

Offline UKMC

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 09:18:29 pm »
Any sign of Brian Kerr?
Is that the man that went missing in there years back ?


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Offline EwanCameron

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 09:28:18 pm »
and also to replace ropes on sump 2  :beer2:

Better off using Hawser in sumps, kernmantle will act as a trap for the unwary once it abrades. There have been a couple of near misses in Swildon's Sump 1 with kernmantle...

the ropes are in place for the diggers to do the ducks Chris/Ralph would know if they are still needed but they where keen to replace but see your point the strands of the core would be a nasty mess

Les - Do you think a chain would work if cut to size and added to the bolts diggers could still use them and divers could follow ??? quite new to fixed lines for both cavers and divers so any advise is mega

thanks in advance
Yours
Ewan 
Caving anyone ? Always up for a caving trip - Who the f&%k was sick in Eldon Hole ?

Offline EwanCameron

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 09:41:47 pm »
Caving anyone ? Always up for a caving trip - Who the f&%k was sick in Eldon Hole ?

Offline Les W

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 09:45:16 pm »
Les - Do you think a chain would work if cut to size and added to the bolts diggers could still use them and divers could follow ??? quite new to fixed lines for both cavers and divers so any advise is mega

thanks in advance
Yours
Ewan

Hi Ewan,
I don't know the sump myself and can only comment in respect of Swildon's.
I wouldn't bother with a chain personally but I would try and rig the rope so it doesn't abrade.
I would definitely use hawser laid rather than kernmantle.
Once the sheath of kernmantle abrades it becomes many thin strands that will catch around peoples helmets and lights. If it is a free dive then this can (and has) trap and hold somebodies head under the water, the only quick solution is to remove the helmet, which might not be possible in a restricted sump.
If it is divers only then I wouldn't use such a thick rope, but I would still use hawser rather than kernmantle.

Lots of ideas have been tried in Swildon's and hawser rope seems to be the best solution, but the rope is still regularly replaced as it becomes abraded, however the failure mechanism of hawser doesn't set a trap for the unwary.
A good idea if it is possible is to have spare rope, coiled at one end so that as the rope abrades then it can be retied so the wear is on a different part of the rope. This will extend the life a bit but I don't think there is a substitute for regular replacement.

I am trying to think why you wouldn't use chain but I can't think of a logical reason, just it seems wrong to me.
Perhaps because it will lay on the bottom and get lost in sediment, or high flow will whip it about and wear the cave (and the chain).
I guess you could try it and see how it works.
I'm a very busy person

Offline EwanCameron

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 10:03:10 pm »
hi Les

Mega thanks will get the right rope to replace and cut 2 sets so an extra one in place to swap out

Think the issues is when it floods in winter is it floods big time and mashes anything in there they have put fixed chains for the escape into church pot and not a lot of people go in there to carry out checks and replace as we where the first team to go as far in a bit but now that i know it i can pop in every now and then and check as i work in the area and i cave in there a lot

might be a option for rope/chains to be put in for summer and then removed before flood time in the winter as i hope to get in a good bit over summers to try and help diggers get info from after sump 4 so would make things loads quicker to have sump 1 & 2 lined but sump 1 can be done with dive line 6mm poly line prob not a fan of the blue farmers stuff (i know i will get jumped on prob for that) but i like the posh 6mm woven cord stuff as it sinks but its still thick  :chair:
Caving anyone ? Always up for a caving trip - Who the f&%k was sick in Eldon Hole ?

Offline UKMC

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2016, 11:54:21 pm »
Les - Do you think a chain would work if cut to size and added to the bolts diggers could still use them and divers could follow ??? quite new to fixed lines for both cavers and divers so any advise is mega

thanks in advance
Yours
Ewan

Hi Ewan,
I don't know the sump myself and can only comment in respect of Swildon's.
I wouldn't bother with a chain personally but I would try and rig the rope so it doesn't abrade.
I would definitely use hawser laid rather than kernmantle.
Once the sheath of kernmantle abrades it becomes many thin strands that will catch around peoples helmets and lights. If it is a free dive then this can (and has) trap and hold somebodies head under the water, the only quick solution is to remove the helmet, which might not be possible in a restricted sump.
If it is divers only then I wouldn't use such a thick rope, but I would still use hawser rather than kernmantle.

Lots of ideas have been tried in Swildon's and hawser rope seems to be the best solution, but the rope is still regularly replaced as it becomes abraded, however the failure mechanism of hawser doesn't set a trap for the unwary.
A good idea if it is possible is to have spare rope, coiled at one end so that as the rope abrades then it can be retied so the wear is on a different part of the rope. This will extend the life a bit but I don't think there is a substitute for regular replacement.

I am trying to think why you wouldn't use chain but I can't think of a logical reason, just it seems wrong to me.
Perhaps because it will lay on the bottom and get lost in sediment, or high flow will whip it about and wear the cave (and the chain).
I guess you could try it and see how it works.


Thinking of putting 10.5mm static inside 13mm plastic rubber hose do you think this would last ?

Would it sink still ?

Might be a option that lets diggers free dive and divers cut some time to get more into sump 3



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Online rhychydwr1

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 01:03:39 am »
Any sign of Brian Kerr?
Is that the man that went missing in there years back ?


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Yes.

Offline UKMC

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Re: Goyden Pot trip to sump 3 on 5th June 2016
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 08:01:15 am »
Any sign of Brian Kerr?
Is that the man that went missing in there years back ?


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Yes.

He's probably in the Crown having a black sheep ale dressed as a woman 


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